Email is such a powerful piece of your online business. It is where you’ll get the biggest ROI (return on investment). So how do you show up authentically and sell to your list?
I’ve got my friend, Kate Doster from KateDoster.com, back on the show to break down why email is so powerful, why it’s different from social media, why it’s the best way to build a close relationship with your audience, and how to create an easy email sales funnel to sell to your subscribers.
Kate’s email philosophy is to show up as a real person. I love that! And you’ll love this episode. Plus, Kate is an absolute hoot!
Table of Contents
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Welcome to the Blogger Genius Podcast brought to you by MiloTree. Here’s your host, Jillian Leslie.
What Do I Get in the MiloTree 6-Week Coaching Group?
Jillian Leslie 0:11
Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the show. Before I start, I wanted to let everybody know that right now David and I are in the midst of our current six-week Blogger Coaching Group. And we are going to start our next one at the beginning of August.
So I want you to pencil that in. I’ll be telling you more about it as it gets closer, but I want you to just put that in your mind. Because if you are a blogger, or an online entrepreneur and you feel like you are stuck, or you feel like you don’t know which way to go, you definitely want to join our next group because we as I say we roll up our sleeves.
We not only dig into your site and optimizing your site because, of course, David is a technologist, but we teach you strategies and we hold you accountable.
So during those six weeks, you’re not just learning. You’re building your business with constant feedback from us.
There are weekly assignments to move you forward and you develop the skills as you’re building. It’s really awesome. So again, just remember beginning of August, this could really be a game changer for you.
For today’s episode, I have my friend Kate Doster back on the show; she was one of my early guests. She is an email marketing expert and she is a hoot. I just love her on the show. And we are talking about what is working in email marketing today. You know, things are always changing.
They’re always new trends, and she is so up to date. I really think you are going to get a lot out of this episode. So without further delay, here is my interview with Kate Doster.
Kate, welcome back to the show.
Kate Doster 2:03
Hi, everybody. I’m so excited to be here. I cannot believe it has been that long. We were just chatting before we hit record. I’m like, what it’s been like two years.
Jillian Leslie 2:12
You were one of my early guests back in the day talking about email and now here you are again. And we’re going to be talking about email. But really how email has evolved and what’s working now. So will you give a little background on how you discovered email how you got good at email and what you love about email?
Starting as a Copywriter Before Email Marketing
Kate Doster 2:31
Oh my goodness, I can go on and on and on. Just cut me off because I could blabber on and on about this topic. So I’m Kate Doster of Katedoster dot com as you guys heard in the intro, and I actually fell in love with email before I had started this particular iteration of my business.
I was a copywriter with a W so not an R and R is where you handle legal contracts and if someone’s you know jacking your stuff, that’s not me. I’m like the Mad Men era copyright or the Don Drapers if you guys can remember that show.
Basically I got paid lots of money to write words that make people hit buttons on the internet. That is particularly my thing. And I have to say that there’s one myth out there like you have to be a great writer or do well in English.
The truth is the people that I feel are the best at writing copy are really the ones who are the talkers. They’re the ones who get people, the ones who love stories and watching TV and movies because really all copywriting is putting yourself into someone else’s shoes.
So when you are a copywriter what’s really unique about the industry is because they’re so in demand you make friends with a lot of other copywriters and you can find some people need website copy like an “about page” or a homepage.
Some people really need a sales page. So you are going to be writing a lot of things. I mean I wrote it all. And the stuff that I really personally enjoy doing were actually emails, launch style emails, landing pages were really fun as well that was just sort of my jam.
So that’s what I did. Honestly, it seems like forever doing that for hire and then I had switched over after seeing the great results that I was getting from my clients. I’m like, I want to be able to do this on a bigger scale, one too many, and help people who feel like they can’t write, or they can’t sell and really show them that they can.
Because as someone who actually has a learning disability, we were talking about distance learning and stuff earlier. It’s like; I’m probably the most least likely person ever that actually started doing this career. And it’s worked out so unbelievably well.
With Email You Can Reach People Who Are Looking for Actual Solutions
And the reason why I love email so much is because it is people who aren’t just casual readers. Yes, we love our casual readers, but they are the ones who are putting up their hands and they’re like, you know, what, I want more help with whatever you are teaching.
Whether it is how to save money, whether it is chicken recipes, whether it is interior design, and that means that those people are actively looking for solutions. They’re action takers, and that’s what we want.
And with email, it’s like, yeah, you can put a blog post out there and maybe somebody read it, maybe somebody won’t. But with email, it’s like these people are excited. We want to say at least excited to learn about interior design to get better at Canva.
And now all of a sudden, you have this group of people that want to hear from you about a topic that you genuinely enjoy talking about. And it’s just magical. So you can be a little bit more personable in emails, you don’t have to write super long ones.
You can write long ones or short ones, you can weave in some personal stories that say you just don’t feel comfortable posting on social media. But you know what; my subscribers are my inner circle. So I’ll go ahead and I’ll share freely with them. So that’s why I love email.
And of course, obviously, we could roll out statistics about how much more money you can make with an email subscriber, than you could for somebody on Instagram, or Facebook like it’s ridiculous how you know, for every subscriber, it’s like $30 for every $1 spent.
So they are just a more candid, active audience, and you get to be more of yourself with them. That’s why I love email.
Email Marketing is About Getting Intimate With Your Subscribers
Jillian Leslie 5:50
I love that it’s that intimacy. It’s that connection. So what would you say then? Let’s say I get somebody on my email list, how do I keep them captivated? And what I’ve read is once you first get that person on your list that is when they are the most valuable to you.
Do you agree with that over time, they might get kind of bored, or they might forget who you are? But it’s like, if you can really capture their attention at the beginning; you will be much more successful getting your message across selling to them engaging with them, what’s your thought about that?
Kate Doster 6:31
Okay, so my whole philosophy, especially with email marketing, and you hear this, it’s like the polar opposite of like funnel hacking and all of that is to treat people like people. So I think that everyone is valuable on my list, whether they’ve been on there for five minutes or whether they’ve been on there for four years.
So you will see natural trends where people tend to maybe stop opening after a little while there is statistics out there like in your welcome series, you can expect there to be some natural drop offs, and that I don’t necessarily think is a reflector of you as a sender.
It’s just someone’s commitment to actually making a change. We’ve all been on like a diet and that first two weeks are great, but then that once they come up and we’re just like, oh, but the donut sounds really good right now. And I could go for that iced latte. You know what I mean?
So I think that people, not because of you, but in general sort of lose their momentum and their enthusiasm. So it’s your job to really keep it there.
So that’s why it’s so important. I think where you are getting at we’re in those first couple of emails those first interaction on your thank you page, which I’m sure we’ll talk about because I got on my high horse about thank you pages in a minute.
You want to use every opportunity to show them, I see you, I get you. We’re going to get through this together. And then people are just like, yes, take all of my monies all of my monies it is when you speak a lot in generalities which I’m sure we’ll talk about in a second.
That’s what’s naturally going to turn people off. Build a business of your dream, you sound like a generic butt face nobody wants that. Well, what does that look like for your person?
Jillian Leslie 7:57
I love that. I love that. Okay, so we do coaching. And I have this wonderful group of women that I’m coaching right now. And literally, that was my message for today, which is, what is your special sauce? So you’re a lifestyle person and you want to teach people how to simplify.
Get Real and Specific with Your List
And I go hmm, what is it about your life that you’ve simplified? What is it about your relationship that you’ve done conflict resolution? I want you I don’t want generalities. And it was like; we think that’s what it’s supposed to be. And I go get specific, get real, get human, and talk to people from that place.
Kate Doster 8:47
110%. I think that what happens a lot of people when it comes to writing emails in general or landing pages or sales pages, or even blog posts, is that they have this weird mentality that if it doesn’t come out on the keyboard as an immaculate sentence, it’s awful.
And that’s why they just default to a generality, like build a business of your dream, or simplify your life. You need to have that awful sentence of build a business of your dream, simplify your life on paper. So that way you can go ahead and we call it editing in the awesome.
The people that write the best messages are actually editing in the best messages. It is asking yourself, okay, I’m going to help them build the business of their dreams. Well, what does it look like for my person being the key person, so like for my person, whenever I could leave and go to the store.
It was like they could slap down their debit card at Whole Foods and not care at all how much it costs like raspberries for $9. Does that matter? For other people’s building the business of their dreams. It might be that they are on a sandy beach and they have a team of remote workers.
For other people. It could be that they have Ferraris or Tesla’s or that they can go to Paris whenever they want to. And they’ve got Gucci and designer bags and all that sort of stuff. So it’s knowing what does that actually look like for the type of people that I want to hang out with?
That’s literally what it comes down to. What does it look like for the type of people that I want to hang out with? Oh, I want them to have simplifying, but in a way that’s like this our wait its like that. And then it’s like, oh, okay, there we go.
Jillian Leslie 10:12
Absolutely. It’s a little bit like color, like you want to color it in the color, not just like the outline, but actually go for the colors and you might choose warm colors, and somebody might hate warm colors and you know what, they’re not your audience.
Kate Doster 10:31
Jillian Leslie 10:33
It’s like, okay, I love let’s say orange, and people hate orange. Well, I’m going for orange and I’m going deep into orange because I’m going to find those orange lovers out there. So I don’t have to do a rainbow of colors.
I can get really specific about not just orange but what I love about orange and then I love oranges by the way, the orange isn’t even my favorite color.
But I’m going to go for who I am and attract the people who love what I love or see the world the way I see the world or have the same vision that I have. So I feel like the more specific, the better.
Kate Doster 11:12
I would 100% agree because when you tend to get more specific and now I don’t need to know what kind of car she wants to drive or any of that stuff, per se. But when you get really specific, then that also alleviates that, well, what if they don’t get results mentality?
Because if you are trying to help someone who has the same general core values as yourself and maybe it’s completely different, because maybe you have changed. So maybe you want people that more resemble, like where you’re at now than where you used to be.
It eliminates that imposter syndrome because like, Oh, well, if Jillian if she really values mindset and energy work, then I know that I can talk about limiting beliefs and I can have my first module be all about getting over your fear of selling by using this modality.
And I know it’s going to work for her because that’s what she’s into. So that’s why getting really specific can also sort of help get away from that imposter syndrome because you already know you did it for yourself.
So even if you just start out with people who are like you, again, maybe it’s not you want help everyone learn how to blog and maybe it’s other mom bloggers or other lifestyle bloggers or, you know, maybe it’s just single moms because that’s what you are.
Start Small and Know Your Avatar
And of course afterwards, you can always branch out. But when you start small, it makes everything a lot easier. And we are all about easy and allowing it to be easy, guys. Let it be easy.
Jillian Leslie 12:27
I love that. I love it. Okay, so let’s talk about what people want. I think from email at the end of the day, which is I want to sell to my list. Talk to me. What did you say?
Kate Doster 12:42
That’s my favorite topic.
Jillian Leslie 12:43
Okay, talk to me. I have, let’s say an opt-in that is related to what I ultimately want to sell. So let’s say it’s a quick win for my audience who has a problem. They’re struggling with something. I have a quick solution. But then I get them on my list with some sort of free download checklist, something like that.
Give Your Audience a Quick Win with Your Opt-In
But then I’ve got a course or I’ve got a product or I’ve got a coaching or whatever it is, it’s a bigger ticket item. Talk to me about how you would go through this?
Do you put them in a welcome series, or sequence do like how do you start giving them value, but also letting them know that you’ve got this product that you think is really going to change their lives?
Kate Doster 13:34
I absolutely love this question. So first and foremost, for all those of you who are like I’ve got nothing to sell, you are going to sell the fact, just like we’ve said before, that you get your person that you understand that you’re reliable that you are a little bit entertaining.
You don’t have to be wild and zany like Kate. You don’t need to but you need to sell the fact that you honestly care about people and I know if you’re listening to this podcast you care about this, people are you listening to somebody riffraff talking right now.
So we can get over that. Really the whole system that it comes down to we talk about the ABCs of email marketing. So the first time we’d really talked about it and that was like, “Hey, who do you actually want to attract?”
Because we could give away free iPads and have like 10,000 people on our list and never make a dime. Because we’re giving away the wrong thing. If people want that free iPad, they could give two craps about ukulele lessons. Okay.
So we want to make sure that our freebies that our landing pages are essentially gatekeepers, because you have to realize that your list yourself is like an intimate space, it is getting the best of you it is getting your most intimate story. So don’t allow the riffraff in. Being on your list is a privilege.
Being on Your Email List Is a Priviledge
So don’t be as the kids called thirsty or hungry or desperate for subscribers, you’re going to let anybody in. You want the people in, that you can help that’s really a stage that becomes it’s bond. So that is where you are going to share stories where you’re going to talk about what we call moments.
So that is, again, what does building a business and regime look like? What we call it the Sir Mix- A-Lot principle after the song Baby Got Back, what are the “yeah buts” that your person has going on inside of their heads.
That’s one of the first exercises that I have everybody do inside my course Love your List and we talked about it on my podcast Inbox Besties, what are the “buts”? List out all the “buts.” So I want to start a blog but I don’t how to get traffic, but I’m not going to write it.
But I’m not but I’m not but I’m not but I’m not. You get all those butts out. And then as you kind of peel back the layers, but it’s like, boy if nobody reads that, but what if I fail? What if my family makes fun of me?
But what if other people find out about this, but what if people get bad results, then you can really start getting in to those actual like psychological, oh my goodness, how does she know this about me? Things these moments and that’s really where we ultimately want to get down to.
So if you have a larger price offer whether it is a larger coaching package, whether it is a course. Then of course you could have either your webinar or you could have a checklist you could have a free challenge.
Get Confident About the Stuff You’re Selling
I never hide the fact that I think it’s going to come off conceited and you need to come off conceded for your own stuff. My stuff is great like it’s hot fire, I cannot lie to you. Love your List is amazing. The market is amazing. It’s amazing. You have to get that confident about your stuff.
And it’s like, why wouldn’t I tell people about this so I’m not going to bury the lead, if you will, and not tell them like until say the fifth email that I’ve got longer list. If I am doing a specially live launch for that, or even if I have never been followed.
I might even tell them in a PS like, we pulled this directly for my free course or for my paid course love your list. Or it’s a subtle thing at the very beginning because you’re like, well, I don’t want a hardcore pitch. You don’t have to hardcore pitch at the beginning.
The other day I was talking with my students of or well on the phone with a client. She was talking about blank, which is one of those”yeah buts”. And it’s like oh, client subconsciously they know. And then you give them okay, what did you tell your client?
Oh, you know that advice really worked for me and if you’re struggling with what Sandy was struggling with, then go over here and hop on a phone call, or be sure to check your next email, because we’re going to fix this together.
So it’s knowing about how people buy, there are some people that are going to want to buy instantly, there are like, yes, just like money, they will hunt you down. They’re just all for it. Other people, you need to actually think about buyer psychology.
They need to think about, okay, well, what is the actual products, you actually believe this person, have other people have gotten these results? And then really what makes the way that I do email and the way that I teach my students to do emails different is to think of again, your person is a person.
What mistakes have they had, maybe they’ve tried a blog before and it didn’t work. Maybe they tried Pinterest before and it didn’t work. So you need to I hate to use this term, like resolve them of their sins, but you need to show them that their failures are actually badges of honor.
And I know that the people that I attract that I aspire to work with, that’s the way they want to market. They don’t want to be like, Oh, if you don’t get this, you’re going to die a penniless loser with mindset issues and your cats can eat your face before the cops find you and so I can never hate you.
That’s not the way I need to roll. It’s like, look, you’ve tried this, this and this, and I get it. It was frustrating. The reason why that wasn’t working was because of this missing piece. You can tell what the missing piece is.
And that happens to be what your coaching covers that happens to be what your course is. It’s not like; your course is the magic pill. It’s like that thing that they are missing is magic pill. You just have a process to get them there faster.
And of course, obviously like testimonials and stuff help but I think that’s really important is just to treat people like people.
Jillian Leslie 18:39
Okay, I love this. Now therefore, based on what you’re saying, you are selling your solution from the beginning. You’re not going hey, I want to provide you with some value so that you trust me and I’m not going to give a bunch of emails and then ask for the sale. And what is your thought about that?
Kate Doster 19:07
I think that it depends on what you’re selling, and what the pain point is, and all that sort of stuff. So I know that we’re going to talk about this later. So things like I we call them easiest offers in my world. So I’ve got one that’s email marketing, various set of email templates, like I offer that on the thank you page.
And then I’ll remind you about it in the welcome email. I’m not going to hide the fact that I have things that can help you. Now for me, because we are in a b2b space business to business, I can be very forthcoming.
I think that and this is where my students who are in that space like I have one student who just wrapped up a launch of selling succulents, it was $127 course and she made $27,000 from plants, everybody from plants.
Like to reiterate you can just be honest and be like this was coming, or and if you need more help with this and you’re struggling with a, b, and c, check this out. Never ever apologize. Now if this is something where you’re like, well, okay, like I’ve got like a $10,000 mastermind, then maybe yes.
Maybe the first email especially because it’s super higher priced, you want to make sure really, that the first email the second email that they’re really consuming your freebie because I’m going to assume that you spent a lot of time actually making it.
Think About Your Audience’s Reservations and Speak to Them
You thought about the “yeah”, “buts” and you want them to actually read it. So that’s really your goal. And then maybe the third one is you want them to really get your philosophy a little bit of your personality. You just like casually mentioning something.
And then if you want to start like gearing up from there, and telling people about tools that you use or your own offer, that’s more of like a welcome style series then you can. But if it’s a funnel for an actual product, I don’t think that you need to hide the fact that that’s where we’re going with this.
You know what I mean? I think that people, whether it is other business owners or whether it’s to consumers, if you’ve got a five day challenge on that first email be like these worksheets were ripped directly from my course blank and blank, you don’t have to link to it.
You’re not telling them what the price is necessarily, if you don’t want to. It’s just so they know at the beginning, they’re going to see the subtle branding at the bottom, that it’s for this other thing. So maybe they’re going to look for it. Maybe they’re going to email you back. And then you can sort of ramp it up.
How the MiloTree Pop-Up Helps You Grow Your Email List and Followers on Social Media
I want you to take this break to talk about MiloTree pop up that you install on your blog. Right now we are all in this world where we want traffic. I personally think one of the best ways to get traffic is through Pinterest, and I’ve talked about it many times on the podcast.
Well guess what? Your Pinterest followers matter, because your Pinterest followers signal to the Pinterest algorithm, that your account matters that people like what you’re putting out there. And in fact, Pinterest shows your pins to your followers first and if they like them and interact with them, it’s a signal to the algorithm to show your pins to more and more people.
And that’s how you build this traffic. So please, if you have not, pause the episode right now, head to MiloTree and sign up for your free 30 day trial you can install it on your site in under two minutes. We offer a WordPress Plugin for WordPress bloggers.
And we also offer a line of code for other blog platforms. We just rolled out something I’m really excited about called exit intent. And what this means is, you can delay your pop ups from showing until somebody is ready to leave your site and as soon as they go to close your site.
All of a sudden the pop-up will show up and ask them to either follow you on Pinterest or Instagram. Subscribe to you on YouTube, follow you on Facebook, join your email list or remember you can put a custom linked anything you want.
Whether it be an affiliate, whether it be a product you sell, whether it be your TikTok account, whatever it is. So please, if you want traffic, and you’re trying to grow your blog, install MiloTree and see what it will do for you. I promise you if you have some traffic, we will grow your followers and subscribers.
If you have any questions, of course, reach out to me at Jillian@MiloTree.com. And now back to the show.
How to Optimize Your Email Thank You Page
Jillian Leslie 23:33
Let’s talk about the thank you page. I have a quick win for my audience. My audience is struggling with something. I’ve got a small solution. I provide it to them. Let’s say it’s a checklist. And then they put in their email address to get the download and what happens?
Kate Doster 23:56
Well, this all depends on you and your actual goal. So for some people like myself, I like to sell on the thank you page, because and it depends what offer you’re going to see depends on what freebie you sign up for, because that’s just what makes sense.
So you want to make sure when you’re actually choosing the “Yeah, but” that you’re going to conquer in your freebie that if you are going to offer something on your thank you page that it is the next logical step you can’t sell.
Excuse me, you can’t have a freebie that’s like five steps to mastering Pinterest, and then on the back end, sell a Pinterest master course on the next page because people are going to be like, I just solved that problem with our guide. Why do I have this ultimate Pinterest checklist?
But now I need the ultimate Pinterest course. That makes no sense. So you need to think what is that next logical step. And that’s where I see a lot of people tend to struggle with freebies; they tend to make them too general.
Like I have one that’s like two years worth of email ideas. So on a thank you page, it’s like, been struggling with how to actually put the sentences together or what to write. Here’s this and it’s like, oh, okay, so I had the ideas before but now she’s going to actually write them for me.
Okay, you’ve got a freebie that works. But what are you going to say to these people, it’s that. So you want to make sure that it makes sense as a next logical step. If you are going to do that on your thank you page, you don’t have to.
How to Set Up A Tripwire On Your Thank You Page
The thank you page is the only part of any of your email marketing that we can guarantee people see, besides obviously, the landing page or the opt-in form. I can’t guarantee they’re going to open your email, I can’t guarantee you they’re ever going to see your pitch.
I can’t guarantee they’re going to actually do the freebie that you like, that’s so much time and effort making. But that thank you page, you need to ask yourself, what’s most important for me, for some people, it might be you tend to sell or your goal is to get people in your Facebook group.
So on your thank you page, you’re going to say something obviously admit what happened. So they know. Hey, so your free checklist is getting sent over to your inbox right now. In the meantime, I want you to go ahead and get these bonus trainings that you find exclusively inside my Facebook group.
It’s not just join my Facebook group, you’re giving them reason why usually there’s some exclusivity or daily access, you can try the camaraderie angle, but you’re going to tell them hi, have a little picture of your Facebook group.
So when they click on it, pardon me, like, they want to go ahead and like, oh, I’m going to go on the Facebook group. Maybe for some people, they want to run the model of they’ll have a checklist. And then on their thank you page, they want a webinar, or they want to book people on a discovery call.
I will say freebie to discovery call right off the bat is usually a harder of a sell. So if that is your model, say you’re a one on one coach, and your goal is to get your one on one coaching.
You might want to send them to like a special video, whether it’s a mini webinar or an actual webinar, where that call to action is to get on the phone because that’ll work a lot better.
Jillian Leslie 26:42
So wait. Say that again. So you could go from thank you to a video right there. That then would lead you to let’s say getting on a call. So it can be an intermediate step.
Kate Doster 26:56
Jillian Leslie 26:56
And some people talk about this, which is the tripwire. The small sale. Do you believe that if I can get that $7.99 sale on my thank you page this limited time offer that I am then training that email subscriber to buy from me.
Kate Doster 27:17
I have to say I like to treat people like people and training makes me feel like you’re talking about animals and they’re not animals, they’re people. So it’s one of those things that I have found. The people that buy my easiest offers or the smaller offers on the thank you page.
And I have them for full price on my site as well, are extremely more likely to buy my bigger things or want other things because I make sure that in those smaller offers, if you’re going to have them on your thank you page.
You naturally talk about what the next step could be. Where you’re like, “Kate I don’t have a next step yet.” That’s fine. Get him on a waitlist just sort of tease something out like oh, like in the future we’re going to do this.
Make Sure Your Tripwire Products Are Great
So that’s how I can have somebody literally in one day buy everything in my suite, because I make sure my products are not $7 on my thank you page for the record everybody, they’re higher than that. I make sure that those products, knock people socks off.
They make them feel amazing about themselves, they get the results. So they are literally hungry for what else I have. And that’s really the key when it comes to setting up these offers on your thank you page, you want to make sure that it’s got some type of done for you element because people love done for you.
You can have videos, it could be courses, it could be an EBook and it could be something tiny. So that way, honestly, you’re taking away the fear of what it’s like to give you money. Because unfortunately, we’ve all bought courses, or we’ve all gotten downloads that have been hot garbage.
And people do not want to feel themselves like hot garbage or oh, I got duped again, I was such a moron for buying into this. So we want to make sure whatever we’re putting on that thank you page. I know this gets tossed around so much in our industry.
You could literally charge at least 10 almost 100 times it because you want to know their socks off in that experience. Personally, that’s what I like to do. Because again, like I said, it takes away that fear for you as well that offer on your thank you page, you can offer it later on in your welcome series.
A welcome series is something that’s a little bit more general, you’re kind of just like showing people around at a party, secure some blog posts. Here’s a guest post that I did. Oh yeah, here’s that UCS software we talked about, you don’t have a discount, but it’s still here.
And it’s awesome, where you give them a little less of a discount. Whereas a funnel is like you say you have this problem. I know that this bigger product is our end game. So every email you’re going to get is either going to point you right to that end game, right to that course right to that thing, right to that thing.
Jillian Leslie 29:38
Got it. Okay, so let’s talk about the welcome series and how many emails should it be and I know there aren’t hard and fast rules about this, but what do you recommend in terms of that? I like that idea of I’m showing you around here. And I’m giving you value we’re getting to know each other.
How Long Should Your Email Welcome Series Be?
I know I understand where you’re coming from I think that’s a big thing you’re trying to communicate to this new email subscriber. And so how long do you recommend kind of this welcome series?
Kate Doster 30:11
So, I love this answer too. It depends and it depends on kind of you and yourself. Meaning if you know that you’re a very sporadic emailer you just never quite get around to it, you can have a million excuses. So your weekly newsletters never happen.
Perhaps you might want to look into having a longer welcome series, because with new people, if you spend an afternoon pumping out some emails, at least, you know, for two weeks or three weeks or four weeks, however long you do it, they’re well taken care of, and it’s something kind of off of your plate.
For most people, we start with what we call the power five, and then we can tack on what we call the authority builder sequence, if you know you’re not a regular emailer, so really what the power five email is, is usually a freebie.
So if you have something I should probably address this. If you have something that’s like a multiple, like day challenge or a multiple video series. Your flows are going to look a little bit different. Because you’re essentially getting permission to hang out with them for five days or four days or whatever.
You can always include a bonus email at the end. But forever and who has got like a one off freebie, that checklist we’ve talked about, it usually tends to be five. So the first one, usually, like, go get this freebie, maybe it’s a little bit about yourself to kind of just let them know.
But again, you really want to reiterate the fact hey, I love that you’re taking action. That’s so smart. Go do this. Okay, the second email that we send, and you can send this again, it’s your own threshold, because I go a lot by feelings.
This could be the next day, this can be two days, I wouldn’t really make it any longer than three days out. Because again, we want to make sure that we stay top of mind at the beginning. So you have time to be their favorite really is we call it a quick tip in a pickle.
What is A Quick Tip in A Pickle Email?
So a quick tip in a pickle is usually something like that next little steps or you’re almost sort of mirroring something that was in your freebie, but then how you actually came to that solution. So say I was helping somebody build their coaching practice using Facebook groups.
I could potentially have that quick tip in a pickle be like and an easy way to grow your group is to have like an easy to say URL, something like that. And I came up with this because I was on people’s podcasts a lot or I was doing interviews and I hate to saying oh go search for bla bla bla, bla group on Facebook.
It was just so much easier to say go to bla bla bla, dot join or community and like, oh, okay, so now I know why you made this. And it’s just something so easy that I can do, or you want to grow your list, go tell 10 people in your real life about this thing. So that’s really what that second email is, again, you’re getting them to take action. You’re reminding them of the freebie.
The third email and some of my students are like, “Do I have to write this?” Is usually the one where you talk either a little bit more about yourself, where it could be your background story, but people really struggle with that same thing with about pages. People hate writing about themselves.
So I make people put on the rants’ pants, and I make them stand on their soapbox and talk about something in their industry or some type of belief that honestly just annoys the crap out of them. So usually I say different words, but we will say it on this podcast, you can get the rating.
Write an Email to Your List About Something You Believe Strongly
So it’s like what is some type of commonly held belief or something going on in your industry, you just, like cannot stand. Like maybe you think that fasting is the worst. So you’re going get on there. And you’re going to talk about, why you think it’s the worst.
You could talk about how people are getting taken advantage of for other things like that; really, you want this email to be polarizing. I think that’s why it’s really scary for people, because they’re like, I don’t want to offend anybody. Because again, I deal with good hearted people. It’s like, you’re not.
If this is a core belief that you have, that you think that this is a piece of the puzzle that you know, people are missing, or you can’t stand it when people do this. Everyone who agrees with that think that you hate, you want to get off because you can’t help because you’re going to clash later on.
So it’s like that’s really a failure that people have a much easier time complaining that they have writing about themselves. So that’s really what the rant email is. And then the fourth one, and again, you can sort of mix up the order towards the end.
The fourth one, if you’ve got that easiest offer on your thank you page, you can reintroduce it. If you have some key affiliate programs that you enjoy, then you can mention them as well. Of course, you can flip flop the rant email, and the number four.
I really do like having that as number three where you’re putting your stake in the ground; because that proves that you’re different. And that’s how you’re going to not sound like everyone else. And that’s how you’re going to get people responding to like, oh my goodness, I also had a dog named Sparky that’s what you want in that third email.
Ask People About Themselves in Your Email Sequence
And then the fifth one. And this one is optional, because some people get a little bogged down by the tech, but I always like to ask people a little bit more about themselves. So we call it the Harry Potter email, versus the sorting hat from Harry Potter.
Essentially you’re going to ask people to click a link to describe something about themselves. So it’s like I’m a beginner, I’m more advanced. I ate dinner over my computer, which would equal you’ve got no time. I’m just getting started into organization. I’m a clutter bug, I can’t throw things away.
So the reason why we’re doing this. Any email service provider can tell you how to tag people based on a click, you are going to have to create some type of thank you page. Technically, it could be any thank you page, where it’s just like, thanks for letting me know.
You can have other blog posts there. You can tell people again, go to your thank you page, give them a next step because people like that. And then you can choose what you want to do with that information. You can decide you know what I know whenever email.
Create Different Email Sequences for Where Your Audience Is
So anybody who tags themselves as a beginner, I’m going to send them into this educational series that I have just for beginners, or advanced. Or what I tell my students, especially when they’re first getting the system going, is we’re just using this as a survey to figure out who you were attracting in the first place.
Because no one likes to fill out surveys, even when you give them Amazon gift cards. They just don’t. But it’s like, Wow, I didn’t realize that so many people were coming to my list. We’re so beginners, I need to make sure that I have more beginner content, or oh, I didn’t realize all these people were like this.
So I really give them three choices. Try not to go more than that, because people get confused if you can do two kind of even better, and then you’ll be able to go from there because your emails afterwards you can send that you can talk with the content that you create, like, “How did she know that’s what I was having an issue with?”
Because people unsubscribe when they’re getting things that aren’t relevant.
Jillian Leslie 36:18
Kate Doster 36:21
I’ve really learned the first five emails; it’s a lot of stuff they’re packing in, like the first two weeks. But again, technically you could do in five days if you wanted to. Most people look at every other day sends schedule. It’s ultimately up for you.
And then you can decide if you’re going to after that fifth email, put people into your regular weekly newsletter, because you’ve kind of laid out the red carpet already. Just tell them that. Oh, next time we chat, it might be tomorrow.
It might be five days from now, again, honesty, because you’re going to be transformed over into whatever you want to call your newsletter. Weekly Boss Knows or She Who Cleans Club or something like that or I’m going to give you even more information to blah, blah, blah, like, oh, okay, as long as they know what’s coming, they’ll be happy.
Jillian Leslie 37:06
I love that. I think that is very powerful. If we’re now talking about people love this idea of opening a cart and closing a cart, and they do it via typically email, you’re feeding all of these emails. First of all, do you like having carts open all the time?
Open Close Cart With Email Marketing
Or do you think there is something to the immediacy and that ticking clock to get people to buy your product with this idea that there is scarcity? What is your feeling about that?
Kate Doster 37:42
I think that it depends on the price of the offer. Just 100% because again, if something is less than 50 bucks why wouldn’t you let everyone have the opportunity to get it? The way if you want to add more urgency I consider that more like assault on your French fries.
Your offer, your copy, your messaging your examples, that’s the French fries. This timer is just that little extra little extra something little extra season salt, that’s going to push them over the edge. So you don’t want to like shove it down their throat.
So again, with a smaller offer, maybe on your thank you page, you want to offer a discount. Maybe you don’t. But for open and close launches. I think that even if you hate that model, because launching can take a lot out of you psychologically, mentally energetic wise.
I think that when you go to something that’s more of an evergreen model, the reason why people rely on things like deadline funnels and timers, is because treating people like people, people procrastinate.
Jillian Leslie 38:36
Kate Doster 38:37
People need deadlines, they do and if they can buy something at any time, they’re likely not going to buy if it’s a bigger investment. They’re not going to. Again, talk about results that we’ve gotten for other people or we addressed when I was first starting out, I had this problem and here’s how I solved it for myself.
Make sure that you hop on a call with me because I’ve only got three books. So you’re adding some sense of urgency, some type of exclusivity on top of all of these other things. So people are like I need to get in on this action. It’s silly not to.
Like I said, if you want to do it live launching where you open and close the cart, by all means you can, if you want to be fancier, and use something like a deadline funnel to open and close your cart for you because it blocks IP addresses.
Putting a Countdown Timer on Your Offer
You can do that if you feel in your guts that you’d rather just have your $200 program open all of the time that I think in your marketing. Every once in a while, you’re going to have to come up with a reason for people to buy now, whether that is a special bonus, whether that is a discount offer, whether you’re just throwing it like oh for the next three days.
Anyone who signs up is going to get a coaching call with me. Okay, so if you do have something all around and make sure that you tell people about things more than once, if you’re just like, oh, I have this thing it’s the marketing fairy or we’ve got MiloTree which is so amazing and you tell them like once.
What if they got a million emails a day? What if there is distance learning? What if it happened to come on the weekend and now it’s Monday and they’ve got a million Monday messages and they never get to Saturday afternoons message. Don’t do them a disservice by not being able to help them by not telling them again.
Jillian Leslie 40:14
Hmm, got it. Okay, if I were to do an open closed cart quick, because I know people get exhausted and it’s a big undertaking. Is there a way to do a mini open closed cart?
Holding a Flash Sale with Email Marketing
Kate Doster 40:27
Yeah, I think that you can definitely do a flash sale. You could do like a webinar, you could do a four day event. I don’t think that there are any hard and fast rules. I think that what ends up happening is we see people.
I don’t want to name names, but we see people at these big launches and they launch once a year and they’re at it for like, a month and they’ve got all of these videos and all these blog posts and all these quizzes and all these freebies and stuff.
It’s just like out the wazoo and you kind of forgot, hey I got one person and they’ve got a fleet of 20. Okay, so you have to remember that too like, “Oh it’s just me what am I going to do?” What are you best at, if you really do like writing, then maybe you’re going to have an email open launch where essentially you’re going to run a flash sale, or even just a promotion to bring people’s attention to the product.
So even if you don’t have a bonus that you’re taking away, or you don’t have a discount that you’re offering, it’s just bringing it to the forefront. So people remember that you have it. Again, we’ll call it a flash sale, it can be three days.
I have usually a random launch called random launch is usually in the summertime, it’s like four days, and we still make a killing like it’s a webinar and then like a four day sequence, and that’s it. And it’s fun. I personally enjoy webinars because I love teaching. I love the live aspect of it.
But it was not everyone’s into that. So you might not be into that. So don’t do it. Do what work for your personality. If you know that having all of those things are just too overwhelming. Then just be like okay, send an email.
We’re kind of like testing the waters and you’re like, people usually fail at blank because of Y. So next week, I’m going to tell you how we’re going to solve that. Okay, or my next email, I’m going to tell you how to solve it. So it doesn’t seem like it’s coming out of nowhere.
Yes, technically, some people might not read that email and read your next one. But we’re trying here, okay, we’re trying. And then it’s like, Hey, remember, last week or two days ago, where we talked about X and Y? Well, I’ve got Z to help you out with this.
And for the next 72 hours, you’re going to be able to get in, I don’t normally open it. Again give them some reason to act now or this or this. And then go from there. Give them a Q & A email; show them some testimonials if you have some.
Think about why somebody would think that they would fail at your stuff, send an email about that one. Don’t say like, oh, you won’t fail at this. But think like, oh, well, I could never do it because I don’t talk about marketing or I can never do this because I hate cleaning. Think of one of those.
Send that as a tail end email; send a last chance just to let them know the ships leaving without you. We love you, but it’s going without you. And then you’re on your way. So it’s like four emails. As oppose to like 18 and a million years of setup. You don’t need a million years to set up.
Jillian Leslie 43:02
Yes, because it can feel overwhelming for most people.
Kate Doster 43:07
Major help now.
Jillian Leslie 43:08
Yeah, but like for most people who are one person and don’t have a whole team, I want them to listen to this and go, I can write four emails. And I can do that thing where I’m just going to resend them at least once. The people didn’t open them.
Kate Doster 43:22
Yeah, you can handle that. And then here’s the thing, because it’s not taking all that mental energy, and all of that. And again, I really try not to name names and that one, well, there are two particular people I’m thinking of that launch once a year.
If their launch goes bad, because it’s like mid pandemic, they’re screwed for the rest of the year. And they’ve got to like, open up like a special flash sale. Come on. They’re like, oh, we never do this because they don’t, because they went bad.
Run an Email Promotion a Month
But if you’re just like, you know what, I’m going to pick a promotion a month, and I’m going to pick a product to highlight or I’m going to pick my course that they like, and I’m just going to talk about one thing a month, go ahead, and a four weeks later go ahead and do it again.
Do it to new people. Do it to old people, you justify yourself and just go and love up on your students and the people that buy your products and make sure you ask for testimonials. So the next time you do it, it’s better make it easy and fun because you created this to make someone’s life honestly easier and more fun. So make it easier and more fun for you.
Jillian Leslie 44:20
I think that is great. Great, great advice. I think that what you always do is you make email, like you know how you talk to real people. It’s like you talk to your audience or my audience, like real people, like check in with yourself.
If this is overwhelming, don’t do this. Do it this way. What is the shortcut? Be honest and upfront about who you are. Own that and people will probably come along, some people will come along with you for that journey.
Kate Doster 44:55
And I can test things out. You don’t know if you’re going to like webinars. You don’t if you’re going to like five day challenges, you don’t know if you’re going to like offering a discount, try it. But I can’t tell you if you only send one email, you’re being a jerk.
Because again, like we talked about, what about those people who just didn’t get your email that day? That’s not fair, because it’s not like you’re going to be by myself now, with all these exclamation points. You’re going to have other things to say about your product and other ways to showcase it and to crush them.
Yeah, but if we’ve got them in to showcase, you can get results. So it’s not like you’re ever repeating yourself but you do need to make sure that people actually know about it.
Jillian Leslie 45:31
I think that is amazing. Amazing advice. Okay, Kate, I am so glad that you have come back on the show that you have shared these like real strategies. Literally you outline here’s your welcome series. There you go. Here are the five emails I recommend you send and they don’t have to be that hard.
Be a human talk to people about their problems. Talk about their resistance allow them to feel the feelings of, oh I bought that old course and it didn’t really work and I never really opened it. And I feel I don’t want to make that mistake again, speak directly to that.
And show up for your audience like what you say is what I sell is really good. So at the end of the day, it is about solving this person’s problem in a really solid way. That’s kind of the fundamental piece, but if you can solve somebody’s problem, well then you get to stand up on the rafters like yell it from the rafters and tell people how great it is and not be afraid to reach out into email them.
Kate Doster 46:42
Exactly and I am always different because yes, I could tell everyone have like a $97 workshop and for some of my students, I say go ahead and do so. But if you’re like, “Okay, like I’ve never sold this before, I’ve never sold anything before I hate sales.”
I would much rather you price it lower than it probably should be, and tell people that’s lower than it should be, get some people in there reject it and then sell it again. And now you’ve got testimonials and people are happy because they’ve got it like I cannot tell you like, we absolutely love your list constantly.
And honesty is the key. So if it’s a brand new product, you can let people know, like, hey, so we’re going to go through the five step system. I think systems are really important for selling and we talk more about this and some other offers that I have.
We’re going to go through the five step system that I use to do blank, even though blank. Sounds like okay, so you say people do the first one you find out the people you know, get messed up with the fourth you talk about your own results.
Maybe you’ve got a friend or someone says something kind about you or about your teaching style about that you sell for $5 $10 $50. Whatever you can get behind. And then there you go. Now you’ve got your first iteration. Now it’s like, okay, now I can sell it for more money. And I can do this and that but just get people in there.
Why You Want to Do B- Work
Jillian Leslie 48:12
I talk about this all the time, which is my concept of B minus work. And what I mean by that is you want to put stuff out there quickly. And if you do not want to dot every I and cross every T and make sure it’s perfect because it’s going to change because you want to put it out there.
You want to see how your audience responds to it. You want to then be able to iterate and make it better. So I’m not saying put out crap, remember, B minus is above average. So therefore and you say, this is my first come along with me. I’m beta testing this.
Kate Doster 48:45
Pilot it. Yeah, pilot it. Hoo hoo.
Jillian Leslie 48:47
I’m giving this away for half price because I want you to test it with me. Like get real, get authentic, but get going. Get stuff out there. And get used to selling like seeing all of a sudden PayPal says you have a new subscriber or you’ve made a sale or whatever get used to that feeling because it does become addictive.
Kate Doster 49:14
Jillian Leslie 49:14
And you do start to go, hey; people are really valuing what I’m building or what I’m creating. And I do believe that that success begets success.
Kate Doster 49:26
Exactly. And I think that as long as you have done something yourself and gotten some type of result, whether it is big or small, then I feel that it gives you a license to create a digital product about it or to offer coaching about it or things like that.
Not really like our audiences, but like other people’s audiences, they’ll like, go and take a course and they’ll try to regurgitate what some big name says. And all of a sudden, they come out this like, “Oh, I’m like a Facebook ads expert.” It’s like you’ve never run Facebook ads for anybody about anything.
And now you’re doing Facebook ads. That person has no integrity. So they should never, ever sell something. But as long as you’re like, “Well, we managed to not get hit by cereal boxes every morning, because of the way that I organized the shelves.”
Like, I can talk about that or my kids are having less tantrums. So this is what I do with them and it works, then you’re fine. As long as you can say for yourself, it worked, then it’s fine. And you’ll find a lot of people aren’t like, they don’t need huge mega results from others from yourself to want to be like, yeah, I want you to take me on this journey.
I think everyone’s like, oh, like, again, they don’t talk to us. Oh, they had $30,000 launch or 15,000 from this, but I’ll also celebrate the people who made their first sale in like March. It’s like they made $27 out of nowhere, and they were so excited.
They made their first affiliate sale of like Bluehost or something like we celebrate those tiny wins. And I think that that’s really important to showcase as well. Once you do have those testimonials. Don’t just show the big flashy ones.
Mirror Every Stage of Success for Your Audience
Like wow! Of course that worked for her but I’m not like her. So that’s why you want to mirror every stage of success every stage of success with your product.
Jillian Leslie 51:09
Okay, I think that is so so valuable. Alright, so people want to learn more and learn from you because you are such a fantastic teacher. How can people reach out to you?
Kate Doster 51:22
Thank you so much. So of course sincerely listening to the podcast you can search for Inbox Besties, that is my podcast, but I also have a free master class, it’s going to dive way more into really because we only talked about a couple of the steps about the four step process for really being able to sell your list and honestly email them and never be annoying.
So if you’re not at the place where you actually have something to sell yet, although we’ve talked about selling, the fact that you care is pretty huge. You can head over to Katedoster.com/genius. And that is going to give you access to my little list, big profits training.
Where I walk you through and actually give you tangible results of things that you can do today. How you can learn to actually talk and communicate with your audience. And how if you weren’t getting that sentence where, “Oh, I love your stuff.” But then nobody buys.
How you can circumvent that and not do it in a way that is gross. So we’re going to end, “Oh your stuff.” But then they go buy somebody else’s as well in this training. So Katedoster.com/genius to get a hold of that training and then of course, the Inbox Besties Podcast you can listen to.
Jillian Leslie 52:25
I love it. Okay, Kate, thank you so much for coming on the show. And we’re going to do this again and not wait so long.
Kate Doster 52:34
I know, we didn’t even really get to talk about the best ways to grow your email list and stuff.
Jillian Leslie 52:37
I know we’re going to come back. We’re going to do a part two, just on growing your list. Is that cool?
Kate Doster 52:43
Sounds good to me.
Jillian Leslie 52:44
Alright. Well, thank you, Kate, again for being on the show.
Kate Doster 52:48
Thank you. Bye.
Jillian Leslie 52:50
I don’t know about you, but I always come away after talking to Kate with tremendous inspiration. I just know the things I need to be doing in my own business and hopefully you have gotten real takeaways from this episode.
What I always say is growing a business is not rocket science but it is about intentionality. It is about follow through and it is about understanding strategy and really a level of psychology, especially understanding what your customer wants from you.
Imagine a world where growing your social media followers and email list was easy…
If you are looking for ways to grow your community whether that be email whether that be social media, right now head to Milotree.com install the MiloTree app on your blog and it will do the work for you. Let it do the heavy lifting for you.
Let it pop up in front of your visitors and ask them to follow you on Instagram Pinterest, YouTube, Facebook, join your list, check out the exit intent but really get your community growing. And we’d love to help you with MiloTree. And I will see you here again next week.