#165: Proven Strategies for Selling to Your Audience with Confidence

Today’s Blogger Genius podcast episode is all about proven strategies for selling to your audience with confidence.

When I posed in my Facebook group the question: “Who hates selling and why?” these were some of my top answers:

• “I just stink at it… “
• “Fear of annoying people”
• “I hate it. HATE IT.”
• “Lack of confidence”
• “I’m not crazy about it. I’m guessing it is because of all the negative things I heard growing up about ‘salespeople.'”
• “I hate selling just because I seem to be so BAD at it!”

Do any of these answer resonate with you?

Today I’m interviewing Nikki Rausch from Your Sales Maven about the art of selling and how to do it with authenticity.

In this interview, we discuss:

• Why as a blogger, you want to sell products
• How to create the know, like, and trust factor with your audience
• Why you need to continually test your offers
• How to not take it personally when someone doesn’t buy from you
• CASE STUDY: How I can improve my own sales strategy when it comes to offering our MiloTree coaching groups

You will find in this interview, that there is a way to make sales without being “salesy.” For anyone shying away from selling or for anyone wanting to get better at sales, this episode is a must!

Show Notes

• MiloTree
• Catch My Party
• Nikki Rausch Your Sales Maven
• “Closing the Sale” book
• The Blogger Genius Podcast on iTunes
• Become a Blogger Genius Facebook Group

Subscribe to The Blogger Genius Podcast:

• iTunes
• Stitcher
• YouTube
• Spotify
• Amazon Music

Intro 0:04
Welcome to The Blogger Genius Podcast brought to you by MiloTree. Here’s your host, Jillian Leslie.

Jillian Leslie 0:11
Hello, my friend. Welcome back to the show. This is Jillian Leslie, your host, I’m also founder with my husband of the MiloTree pop-up app that grows your social media followers and your email subscribers.

We also are founders of Catch My Party, the largest party ideas site on the web. I am a business coach, and a business translator, I take what is working today in online business and break it down. So, you can use these strategies yourself.

I am very excited about today’s episode, I am interviewing Nikki Rausch from, Your Sales Maven. And we are talking about something that I think is so important and a little uncomfortable. And it is how to sell things, what to sell, and then how to do it.

We talk about the discomfort we both share our own stories of being uncomfortable. And this was really inspired by a conversation that has been happening in my Facebook group called, Become A Blogger Genius.

I recommend you join the group and people have been sharing about their discomfort around selling and I always say to be a successful blogger, you need to figure out what you can sell to your audience.

And I can feel everybody expressing that icky feeling. And that’s what I want to address head on. Also, what’s come up is people’s discomfort around monetizing their blogs, like if they’re serving their audience, is it unseemly to also want to be making money.

And I say, unequivocally, please monetize your blog, please make a ton of money. That’s fantastic. Because if you make money, you can serve your audience even more.

And if you’re serving your audience, hopefully it will enable you to make money, they work in tandem. I’m going to be sharing more about this topic, because I feel like it is so important. I want you to really embrace monetizing.

So, without further delay, here is my interview with Nikki Rausch. Nikki, welcome to the show.

Nikki Rausch 2:35
Thank you so much for having me, I’m very excited to be here with you.

Jillian Leslie 2:39
I am super excited to have you. Because as I mentioned, before I press record, I put together nine tips for people to be successful in 2021. And some of them are about being uncomfortable

Successful Bloggers Sell Products and Services

So, one of them that I shared with you is to put your face on video in 2021. Because I believe that in order for audiences to trust us and know us and like us, they need to see that we are humans, especially in this time when we can’t really see people face to face.

And then my other piece of advice to make people uncomfortable. That’s not my intention. But I do believe if you can push yourself to do this, you will have a lot of success.

And that is to sell something, to figure out what your audience is struggling with come up with a solution and offer that to your audience. And that has two pieces which I want to get into with you.

One is what do I sell? And two is how do I go about selling that? So, what is your thought about this piece of advice for my audience?

Nikki Rausch 3:50
Well, first I’m going to say Amen. And yes, you absolutely, absolutely should be putting yourself out there. This is building the know, like and trust factor is a real thing. And they say that, I learned this from my studies in neuro-linguistic programming.

That you can break communication down into three main areas, you’ve got the words that you use. So, when you’re a blogger, the only piece of communication that you’re working with is the words.

And then the second piece of the pie is voice quality. And so, if you’re talking to somebody or they can hear you on a podcast, now you’ve got this second piece of communication to add to it.

And I’m quoting the Mehrabian study, which is an old study, and there’s probably other ones out there. But this is the one that I learned through my NLP study. So, they say of the three piece of the pie words is only 7%.

So, when you’re thinking about communicating, building know, like and trust, and you’re only doing it through blog, you only have 7% of communication to work with. So, your word choice is it has to be spot on.

And then when you add the voice quality to it, so whether it’s a podcast or whether it’s talking to somebody over the phone. Now, the words they say is 38%, I’m doing this off the top of my head so we’ll see if my math adds up, so 38%.

Show Up Live so People can Hear Your Voice, Listen to Your Words, and See Your Body Language

Now, when you add the words and the voice quality together, you’ve got 45% of communication. So now, you’re enhancing the ability to build that know, like, and trust factor.

And then when you add in your body language and facial expressions, which now when you do video, people get to see you. They get to see your facial expressions, they get to see how you move your body, they get that connection to you.

They say that that is the other 55%. In order to really build this, know, like and trust factor and to build it quickly, you want people to have this experience of seeing you, hearing you, and then being really specific and precise in the words that you choose.

Because all of these things help you have that like, oh, this person, when they get on a call with you. They’re like, Oh, I already feel like I know you. That’s actually one of the best things I love about my podcasts of having a podcast.

And I just had this happen. I got on a client call; somebody booked a strategy session with me. And we got on the call last week she was like, “I know you don’t know me, but I feel like I know you really well, Nikki.”

And I was like nothing is better than starting a call with somebody where they already feel like I know you. So, yes to the video. And then of course, when the sales piece. Absolutely.

If you are not putting offers out into the market, if you are not allowing people who really love you, who follow you, who are excited to hear what you have to say, if you’re not making offers of some way that they can get more.

So, if you’re not selling something to them, you’re creating an environment of unsatisfaction. It’s unsatisfying to people to not know what the next step is.

And this is one of the reasons why you being able to sell something and make an offer and do it in a really authentic kind way.

You will have people be more satisfied with their interaction with you when you have something to sell to them.

NIKKI RAUSCH

So, it’s super important.

Jillian Leslie 7:23
I couldn’t agree more. I think that the blogging can feel very safe. Because there’s a distance. I put out a post, let’s say it’s a recipe, I put out a recipe or I put out a craft or who knows what, or even I’m writing about parenting or something even more personal.

But if there’s a little bit of like, my post goes out, you read my words, you can get in touch with me. But there’s real distance.

And I think for a long time, before video became easy before taking photos became easy. That was the way we communicated as bloggers. And I feel like I don’t like calling bloggers, bloggers. I feel like they’re online entrepreneurs with a blog.

And you get to see yourself in a much bigger way than I’m just a blogger. Blogger, it almost seems cute versus, “No, I’m an online entrepreneur, I’m building a business.” And I think that sales, selling something is so important to really growing your revenue.

We coach different bloggers, and I will tell you, the ones who are the most successful, have figured out what their audience is struggling with and have come up with a solution and have figured out how to sell that solution.

Nikki Rausch 8:50
I’ve been saying this for years, too. And I’m sure people in your audience have heard this. It’s like, if you don’t have something to sell, and if you aren’t selling something, you have a hobby, you don’t have a business.

A Business Is All About Generating Revenue

A business comes from generating revenue and revenue, no matter what anybody says, comes from sales. You have to sell something to generate revenue. And this is one of the reasons why I don’t take on private clients.

Very rarely would I take on a private client who hasn’t had their business for a year. There are ways to work with me, even if you haven’t had your business for a year, but I won’t take on a private client that hasn’t had their business for a year.

Because I find that a lot of times, they still have this mindset of I’m going to put out a piece of content or I’m going to have a blog or I’m going to put up a website. People are going to flock to it, and they’re just going to pay me like bucketful of money.

And even though there’s a part in this, like, yeah, people are telling me that’s probably not going to work. But I read a story once that it worked for somebody so if it worked for them, it’s going to work for me, but that’s just not how It works.

That’s not how we generate money. And how we generate money is by selling something. And selling is a skillset. And if you’re an expert on parenting, and if you’re an expert on recipes, and like all these things that make you who you are, that is amazing.

And yes, people need access to you. And in order to generate revenue, there has to be some sales skill involved. It doesn’t have to be yucky; it doesn’t have to be aggressive.

And yet there does need to be some strategy behind the selling piece. If you really want to grow a successful business, you have to grow business through generating revenue. And that comes from sales.

What Do I Sell to My Audience?

Jillian Leslie 10:45
Now, what are your thoughts for figuring out what to sell? I talked to bloggers all the time, and they go, “I don’t know what to sell.” How do I figure that out?

Nikki Rausch 10:54
Okay, I don’t know if you’re going to hate this answer. But this is the answer that I give my clients often is, you put something out and you see if people want to buy it.

Jillian Leslie 11:05
Okay, you are preaching to the choir, you’re preaching to the choir.

Nikki Rausch 11:09
Because the thing is this people are always asking me, “What do you think about this offer Nikki?” Or “What do you think about this price point?”

And I can give you ways to structure offers, and I can make suggestions on price points, and how to lay out the offer and all of that. But the proof is in the pudding. The proof is by putting the offer out, and sometimes even selling it at a crazy low price.

So, that you can get the experience of do I like doing it? Does it get the results that I want the person to get, or give them the opportunity to get the results? Because some of it is on people implementing.

You Need to Test Your Offers

I’m a big believer in that too, that implementers get results. There has to be a way for them to implement whatever it is that they’re paying you money to receive. And it’s about testing offers in the market.

And it’s not about having the perfect offer at the perfect price. It’s about putting an offer out there and going well, that didn’t work. So, I’m going to do something different next time or that was a huge hit.

How can I amplify that, or this piece of it worked, this other piece didn’t? So, I’m going to keep this piece. I’m going to add to try a new thing here and get rid of the part that didn’t work. It’s really about testing.

I put out an offer last year that was, wildly successful beyond my wildest dreams, successful. I had no idea that people were going to respond to it the way they did.

Jillian Leslie 12:38
What was it? What was it that you did?

Nikki Rausch 12:41
What it was I’ve never done this before, but I offered people to become lifetime members to my Sales Maven Society. That’s my membership program. So, Sales Maven Society, that’s where training is housed.

People get access to all this sales training, and they get access to me in a group. And they get access to our private Facebook group. And it’s an incredible group.

And I’ve never made an offer for somebody to just be a lifetime member, because usually it’s a monthly fee, or you could sign up for a year, but never a lifetime offer. And then I attached to it three private strategy sessions with me.

So, that’s private coaching. So, you got three strategy sessions and lifetime offer access. And my goal was to sell five. I wanted five people to purchase it.

And I sold 48 I think within just a few days, and since then, I’ve sold it a few more times to a few people that have asked,

Jillian Leslie 13:39
And how much do you charge for this?

Nikki Rausch 13:41
I charge $990 for it. It was a crazy low price. It originally generated $47,000, but it has since generated probably close to $100,000 really. Because people have repurchased the strategy sessions.

Once they’ve signed up for this offer now, they buy, sign up for my master classes and all that. So, it’s generated a ton of income. And then I put out an offer in November of 2020 that I thought was an even better offer.

I thought this was going to be ‘the offer’. I just thought, ha, this is going to be the thing that people need. And nobody bought it. Not even one. Not one person bought it and I was like oh, okay, so I won’t be making that offer again.

But I can always go back to this offer. That was a huge success last year and maybe I tweak it, it’ll never be offered at that price again. Because again, it was a lot of work to fulfill all these strategy sessions and it was a crazy low price that people got.

And it was a huge value, some people bought it. And they’re like, “I don’t even care about the strategy sessions with you, Nikki, I just wanted lifetime access.”

And then other people are like, “I don’t really care about the lifetime access, I just want the strategy sessions.” So, I’ve had actually people gift the strategy sessions to other people.

Because they’re like, “I don’t care about those, I just wanted the lifetime offer because it was such a huge value.” So, that’s again, my point in sharing this is not like, look at me and my big offer.

It was really more about I tested something I had never offered before. I had one that was a huge hit. I had another one that was a huge, like bomb. And I also, did like a mid- offer where the people who bought it, were really excited about it.

And I sold past the goal that I wanted, but nothing like what this offer was back in February. So, it’s just about testing things.

Jillian Leslie 15:55
Totally. So, in my thing that I put together of just my Nine Blogging Tips for 2021. One of them is test, test cheaply, test fast, test often. And here’s the weird part.

This is hard for us, especially as women do not take it personally when it fails, because it does more often than not your test will fail. They will. I struggle with this. How do you not then want to get in bed and pull the covers up over your head?

And, it takes three days for you to get yourself back together.

The more you put yourself out there, the more things you try, the more failures you’re going to have.

But really, what you need is that one success. I call these “at-bats.” I call this “mining for gold.” And this is also where my concept of doing B-minus work comes in. Which is you’re co-creating with your audience.

Jillian Leslie

You’re potentially pre-selling your ebook or your course and saying, “Are you guys interested in this? And can I get you to come along with me as I create this? Can we co-create it together?”

Because if I think I’m going to hit A+ work, but I haven’t been testing this, and I haven’t been getting feedback, I’m really not doing A+ work.

It’s only when I put it out there. See what response I get. Hear what people are saying. What words are they using? How can I then fine tune it so that I can then continue to iterate and iterate and iterate?

Nikki Rausch 17:33
Yes, I totally agree with that. I’d mentioned this launch, or this offer that I put out. Just to give some background around it. I actually had spent some money for my business, I signed up for a program that I hadn’t budgeted for, but I really wanted to participate in.

And that program was $5,000. So, I spent $5,000, I wasn’t expecting it. And after I spent it I kind of started to freak out.

And I was like, Okay, so now I need to sell something that I wasn’t expecting to sell for $5,000 to recoup the money that I just spent in my business that I wasn’t expecting to spend.

Now, I did this, I came up with the idea the concept for this offer within 24 hours after spending this money. And I had an offer out to my list within 48 hours of spending this money. And I recouped my investment, within the next 72 hours or whatever it was.

And then all this other, revenue got generated from this, but it came from this idea of oh, I need to sell something right now. So, I’m going to put this offer out in the market.

And I was telling one of my friends about this who does these huge launches, and she does like three or four of them a year. And they’re huge. She invest tons and tons of money and time into these launches.

And when she was like, “Explain your process for this launch.” And so, I explained it to her and she was like, “Wait, you launch this in like three days.” I’m like, “Yeah.” Because I have a list, I build a list. I build relationships with the people who are on my list.

And I put out a really aggressive offer. And they either say yes to it, or they say no. I’m not going to build these crazy websites and webpages and put all this money behind this huge launch and do all these ads and all this stuff.

I don’t even know if the offer is going to work. So, I’m not going to put a bunch of time and energy. I’m just going to test it first. I love that test is on your list of your nine things. Again, amen test.

Test Your Offers Cheaply and Fast

Jillian Leslie 19:53
Test cheaply. I love that you put that together in three days. I love that you have that fire under your butt, like, oh my God, when he’s flying out the window, I got to recoup this.

And my hunch is that you were bolder, because that money went away that $5,000, had you not spent that money. And you were thinking about, oh, I’m going to do this, it wouldn’t have made it so immediate, like, I’m going to just do it and see what happens.

And worst comes to worse. Who knows a little embarrassed, or a little shocked or a little sad, or whatever those feelings are. Same thing. I have friends, and they structure these launches, and they have these huge whiteboards, and everything is mapped out.

And it’s amazing. It’s amazing. But I would say get there, once you figured out what works with your audience. Like how to take your offer now, the next time and maybe you build a landing page, maybe you don’t.

We were told to do these things. And I’m not, I’m not 100% sure, you need to. I was watching a video today about YouTube. Because this is my year where I’m leaning into YouTube.

And it’s all about like, well, when you get to be a big enough YouTuber, you buy the $7,000 camera, and your production value goes up.

And I had this thought of going Hmm, I’m not sure how many YouTube videos I watch, because the production value is so high. I watch YouTube videos, because I’m gleaning information. And I like the person who is sharing the information.

And I’m not sure I care how perfect the lighting is. Eventually, if you’re making millions of dollars with your YouTube channel, of course, you’re going to worry about your lighting. But you’re like, I’m just starting to send some emails.

And I’m going to see what happens. And it’s not going to be perfect. And guess what? You struggled.

And then you did it again. And I bet you had more confidence in the second offer than the first one. Because the first one had worked so well.

Nikki Rausch 22:05
Oh, I did have a lot of confidence. And again, it was a flop. And I’m okay with this. Because the thing about sales is, we often especially people who haven’t been trained in sales, and people who feel a little bit hesitant around selling.

I find that a lot of times it’s that fear of rejection, or it’s that fear that I’m going to be judged. People are going to be like, how dare she sell to me, we make up all these stories about what people are going to say.

And the example that I often give to my clients is, when you make an offer, and somebody declines it, that is not rejection. We take it as it is rejection, like “Oh, I got to go lay in bed and pull the covers over my head.” Or, “Oh, I feel really ashamed.”

But I often compare it to imagine that you go to a restaurant and you have a really nice meal, and it’s just absolutely fulfilling, you have a great waiter.

And at the end of the night or at the end of the meal, the waiter comes by and says, “Would you like to see that dessert menu?” And you think to yourself, I would like to but I’m just so full, and I’m so satisfied that I’m just going to decline. So no, thank you.

The waiter does not go back, into the kitchen and get the staff together and be like, “Can you believe that lady, she just rejected me, I offered her dessert and she said no!” It’s not rejection, it’s not the right time.

When people don’t take you up on your offer, they’re not rejecting you personally, it’s just not the right time. And I always say this about sales, your job is to not try to convince people to buy from you.

Nikki Rausch

That’s not your job. Your job is to make it available for the person who needs you. Put yourself out there so that for the person who is ready to buy, here’s the offer.

You find out what the problem is, you offer the solution, they get to decide if they take it or not. And it’s not personal. If the answer is no.

ADVICE: It’s Not Personal if Someone Doesn’t Buy from You

Jillian Leslie 24:05
I think that is such terrific, terrific advice I need to shrink you down and put you in my pocket. So that you can always remind me of that because even though I know it intellectually, it doesn’t mean I don’t get my feelings hurt when it happened.

I go, you know what, it’s okay, if I get my feelings hurt, and I take it personally, even though it’s not personal. And then I don’t have to spend three days in bed recovering, but I can go well, you know what I’m going to learn from this.

And I’m going to tweak it or I’m going to ask people, “Why didn’t you buy or what exactly are you struggling with?” And go at it again and go at it again. And put myself out there and see what happens.

Nikki Rausch 24:47
I love to ask when I’m surprised if somebody declines. If I’m working with somebody and we’ve had this great conversation and I know like oh my gosh, what I do is totally going to solve their problem. Like I can really help this person.

And we get to the end of what I call the selling staircase and the sales conversation, which is the closing and they decline, then oftentimes, if I’m a little bit like, wow, I’m surprised they’re declining.

I would just say to that person in the moment, “Is it okay to ask the reason you’re declining?” Because I want to know, but I’m going to ask in a really kind way to try to keep the relationship, the rapport there.

I don’t want to make them feel defensive by having to be like, “I can’t afford it, or I don’t like you, Nikki, and I don’t want to buy from you.” I’m not trying to put them on the defensive.

Don’t Be Afraid to Ask People Why They Didn’t Buy

And yet, that information is so crucial to maybe not earning their business, but to doing a better job in the next conversation or in the next offer. So, don’t be afraid to ask people that question too.

And I always put what’s called a softening phrase in front of it, which is, is it okay to ask? Put your voice in a nice way. Is it okay to ask your reason for declining the offer?

Jillian Leslie 26:02
It’s interesting people, we sell a pop-up app called, MiloTree grows, your social media followers and your email subscribers, certain customers will cancel. And they’ll email me, and say, I want to cancel my account.

And of course, my response is always, of course. And then I write, “Hey, would you mind sharing why you’re canceling.” And then I say this to not make it personal. I go, we’re always trying to improve our product.

So, any advice or any thoughts you can offer would be greatly appreciated. And then most people will say things like, well, I’m shutting down my blog, or I’m taking a break, or whatever it is, and it’s not even about my product. It’s about my life has changed.

Like I can’t afford it, or who knows, more often than not, it’s something like that most people are happy to tell me. But it’s not personal. Like you’re rejecting me, it’s like, hey, we’re just trying to get better.

Imagine a world where growing your social media followers and email list was easy…

I thought this would be the perfect opportunity to talk about how you can use the MiloTree pop-up app to grow your business.

How it works? MiloTree is a pop-up, you install on your blog, and it pops up when a visitor comes and asks that visitor to follow you on Instagram, or Pinterest, or Facebook or YouTube, or join your email list.

And why this is so powerful is it gets that visitor who doesn’t really know you to stay in your universe, you get to then reach them over and over again.

So, please head to milotree.com try it out. If you haven’t you get your first 30 days free, there is no risk and let MiloTree do some of the heavy lifting, building your community for you. And now back to the show.

Change Is Not Comfortable But Necessary

Nikki Rausch 27:56
I will say I’m a lifelong learner. And I’m committed to growth, and growth usually is not comfortable for most of us. Change is not comfortable.

But I’m committed to trying to be the best version of myself and try to be better this year than I was last year and, in my business and in my personal life and all of those things.

But a lot of times that comes from the places where we do get told, no. That growth can come from the place where something didn’t go the way that we want it to. Because when it goes really well we’re like, “Oh, yeah, that’s supposed to happen.”

I’ve totally play into that. And then when it doesn’t go, well, we’re like, “What! what’s going on?” And so, that’s the place where you want to dig in, you want to understand what happened, what could I do differently next time.

Try This Selling Exercise

And I actually assign this to my clients, when they get in this negative mindset of like, this didn’t work. And that didn’t work. And like this whole thing was, it just was a total flop.

And I always give them an assignment where I say, okay, here’s what I want you to do, I want you to tell me, three things that you’re happy with, that were in direct link to your performance in the conversation to the offer. And the things that you have control over.

Three things you’re happy with that you think went well. And then one thing that you’ll change the next interaction that you have.

So, it isn’t like the one thing you did wrong. It’s the one thing you’ll change because it’s about gaining new insight and information and then applying it. It’s not about beating yourself up of like, “Oh, nobody wants to buy from me.”

Jillian Leslie 29:33
Totally. So, let’s then start at the beginning. I’m a blogger, I come up with my first product. It’s an eBook simple. And I’ve done it the way that you and I are talking about. I went to Canva and I just put it together.

And let’s say I’m going to make a landing page on my WordPress blog. And I’m going to have a ‘Buy’ button and I’m going to tell you the value of what this is, and I’m going to put it out there.

What are your thoughts about that? And do you have different advice for me with my eBook?

Nikki Rausch 30:09
Well, a couple things about putting it out there is people have to know about it. We have to let our listeners know, here’s an opportunity. The piece that I’m going to come in, and I’m not sure if I’m answering your question.

The piece that I think is really important is when you’re putting something together, and you’re putting it out there, you have to make it for the reader.

Have Your Sales Language Speak to the Reader

And that means your language has to speak to the reader. And one of the mistakes that I see people make over and over and over again, in their communication, is they speak like they’re speaking to everybody.

Well, the fact of the matter is, nobody reads your blog as a group. We don’t all get together. This isn’t like a book club. And let’s read the blog together. So, speaking like, “Hey, everybody, here’s this great eBook.”

Now, here’s an eBook for you. Speak to a reader speak to a person because that’s how they’re reading your blog and your offer.

And then the other thing that can be a little bit of a disconnect, is we write based on the way that we think. Okay, so that makes sense, because we have a thought, and we type it out.

And we write, that oftentimes is not as interesting to the reader than if you speak to the way the reader wants to, be talked to.

So, they don’t necessarily want you to go like, “Here’s what I want for you guys. And here’s what I created. And here’s all the things that you’re going to get from me.”

That’s not as interesting if you say, “Here’s an eBook for you, here’s how you’ll benefit when you read it. And here’s why this is going to impact your life.” I don’t need “I” in there at all. I don’t need any “I” statements in there, because they’re irrelevant.

Because the reader cares about their thoughts more than they care about my thoughts and what I want and what I need. No, tell the reader, this is what you’ll get, this is for you.

And so, speak in that language, and you will find that people will respond as if you wrote it for them. And they will be like, “Ah, this eBook, I know, you wrote this for me.”

And here’s why. And here’s how this applies to my life. And here’s how I’m going to use this and they’ll love you for it. And they’ll remember you for it.

Jillian Leslie 32:45
I say this all the time that this isn’t the “Jillian Show.” And the truth is most of my listeners, I’m sure they care about me, but in this conversation that we’re having, that we can provide value to them.

And weirdly, that hits I think on two fronts, one; what nobody cares about me. And the truth is, when we can shrink ourselves down and recognize that they don’t, it’s very freeing.

Because you don’t care necessarily what my hair looks like or you’re not obsessed with me, like I’m obsessed with me. So, it doesn’t really matter. All that stuff that we as ourselves, think about, oh, they’re judging me for this or that. They’re not even noticing.

Because they’re in themselves, so that it’s one, it’s very freeing. And therefore, by being free or freeing, it makes you braver.

Nikki Rausch 33:50
Yes, I would say sales isn’t actually about you, it’s about the other person. And when you make the conversation about the other person, the person that you are here to serve, they’ll feel that from you.

Because I think we all know there are certain people out there, you get a sense of their style, and it feels like it is the so and so show. It’s just about them and all they do is talk about themselves and how great they are and what they did over the weekend.

And this great life that they’re living and that gets old. Because people are like, well that doesn’t really help me at all. I don’t get anything out of that as the listener or as the reader.

So, start speaking to the reader, make everything about the person. I know that I said this already on your podcast. I said for your listeners, but they don’t listen to your podcast together as groups either.

Even that’s a mistake on my part because it’s for the listener it’s for you listening right now. This is for you. Instead of like this is for everybody because it’s just not as interesting. Again, I’m not sure if I totally answered your question.

Jillian Leslie 35:05
So I’ve got my eBook. And let’s say I put up a landing page, and I write an email. And all of that text should be all about, not me creating this for you, but all about the value for you. And do we need to talk about, for example, the transformation?

Let’s say it’s somebody who deals in plants. And I’m going to show you how to grow healthy plants, because plants make people happy. And they’re healthy to be around.

And it feels really good to have things growing in your house. And there’s all this additional, like, emotional benefit, rather than just like, I’m going to teach you how not to kill your plants.

Nikki Rausch 35:56
Yes, I like to actually follow a format. And this is pretty standard. If you’re on my list, and you get an offer from me, you’re going to see that I will often say, this offer is for you when, because I want to help them identify like self-identify, like, yes, that applies to me.

And then I’ll say, and here’s how you’ll benefit. So, I’ll go, this offer is for you when, and then I’ll have my bulleted list of things like when you are, sick of having to just replace plants, because they are dying all the time.

When you want to have healthy plants that clean the air. I obviously I’m no expert on plants.

Jillian Leslie 36:38
Me neither.

Speak to “When” Your Offer is Right for Your Audience

Nikki Rausch 36:39
And then here’s how you’ll benefit. Or here’s what you’ll receive, tips so that your plants live happy longer lives, and you have a happier, longer life. Or whatever that piece is. So, we say like this is for you, ‘when’.

By the way, I don’t say this is for you, ‘if’ because ‘if’ in this particular case, sounds like, “Are you sure you might want to think about it, maybe you don’t want to sign up for this?”

Now, this is for you ‘when’ because I want that forward momentum like this is for you when you’re ready for our blah, blah, blah. So, that’s just a language piece that I teach. I think we overuse the word ‘if’ in marketing. And so, I try to get away from it.

I’m not saying no, don’t ever use it, but I try to avoid using it in most instances, I don’t think it’s appropriate. And then here’s what you’ll receive. I also will say things like, “you’ll be shown,” instead of “you’ll learn.” or “you’ll be taught.”

Because I think “shown” feels like an easier word for people to take in like, “Oh, if you’re going to show it to me, okay, I’ll look.” But if you’re going to teach me like, that sounds like work.

So, I often use that type of stuff, “you’ll be shown” or “this is for you when” and “you’ll be shown” or “you’ll receive,” like, think about that from a wording standpoint.

Again, it’s really about we are just putting something out there so that the reader or the client or the prospect in this particular case goes, “Oh, I identify in these statements, myself, I identify that this is definitely for me. And I want those benefits.”

Jillian Leslie 38:19
I love that. Yes, absolutely. I was at a conference once and a guy was speaking and he said, a very powerful word is “imagine.”

Nikki Rausch 38:31
Oh, yeah.

Jillian Leslie 38:31
So, when you’re talking to somebody and you say, imagine waking up and feeling the clean air in your house, and feeling this life around you?

It’s like if I say to you don’t think about pink elephants. And of course, you think about pink elephants, like if I say imagine you can’t not imagine? Like, how it feels?

Nikki Rausch 38:51
Your brain loves those words.

Jillian Leslie 38:53
And I’ve started to use that in my own copy. Also, because it kind of shows you what the result would be very quickly in a visual.

Show Your Customer How Their Future Might Look if They Buy Your Product

Nikki Rausch 39:07
In my studies of neuro-linguistic programming, using a term like “imagine” is also known as “future pacing”. And our brains love to future pace. It’s like, oh, I can see myself having these big, lush, beautiful plants that are super healthy.

And I feel like I live amongst living organisms, and it feels really powerful. Our brains love that type of language. It’s because you’re speaking right to the brain. So, when you say “imagine,” it’s this future pacing.

It’s also like a totally different context of this is I teach my clients to not say, “What questions do you have?” Because that makes them have to, like, my brain doesn’t like that answer.

It’s a lot of work. But when you say to somebody, “What questions come to mind for you?” Their brain goes, aah.

Jillian Leslie 40:02
That is so lovely when you said that. That is amazing. So, first, I just have to stop for one second. And have you explain what NLP is.

What is NLP and How Does it Help You Sell?

Nikki Rausch 40:14
Okay, so it stands for Neuro-Linguistic Programming. And the most basic definition of this is it’s the study of communication. So, neuro the way we process information in our brains.

It’s a lot about that what’s going on with your brain. linguistics is language. So, it’s the way that you speak the words that you choose. Also, the way others speak to you. And that internal dialogue that most of us have going on, that’s the linguistics piece of NLP.

And then the P, the programming is that habits and patterns. I have a pretty extensive background in neuro-linguistic programming. I have a master certified in it, and I have over 1,200 classroom hours.

And just to give some context to that most people who have a similar certification level that I have, have less than 200 hours. So, I have a pretty extensive background in NLP.

And I bring that into my work, which is why I spent a lot of time focusing on the conversation side of sales. That’s where my expertise really comes. And that’s where I bring all of this NLP in.

And I teach. My all time favorite quote is, “Blessed are the flexible for they shall not be bent out of shape.” I feel like my mission in life is to teach people how to be more flexible, how to say things in a way that lands softer.

How to make it easier for people to get what they want, it isn’t about manipulating, it isn’t about convincing people, it’s just making it easier for people to go, “Yes, I’m in.”

Jillian Leslie 41:46
Okay, we are launching, we do these coaching groups every so often. And our next one is starting January 12. This will go live after that.

However, what I do, and you can give me your feedback on this, is I have a landing page that talks about all the benefits. And really, it’s about helping you in real time, my husband, and I do it together. And he’s the tech guru.

We really help you grow your business in real time, your blog. So, we show up live on Zoom. And what I say to people is, Hey, I talked about it, but then I say, “Get on a call with me.”

Because I can hear about your business and what you’re struggling with what’s going well for you, and hear what your goals are, and then talk to you about how we can help you get there.

Not that many people, by the way, take me up on this offer, which I think is really interesting, because I’m just giving free advice. I’m going to look at your blog, I’m not looking at even your site speed.

David and I take it really seriously. So, before I get on a call with you, I asked you, what’s working for you, what’s not working for you? What’s your website, we look at it and do an analysis.

And then I get on a call with somebody for like a half an hour and say, “Tell me what do you envision for yourself? And where do you feel like you’re stuck. And here’s what I see as an outsider.”

“And here are some places, whether you join our group or not, here are some things you can take away from this, that hopefully will give you some fresh eyes on your business.” Just tell me what are your thoughts about that? How can I make this better?

How Jillian Can Improve Her Sales Strategy with Selling Her Coaching Group

Nikki Rausch 43:37
So, you’re asking me in this particular situation.

Jillian Leslie 43:39
Yes.

Nikki Rausch 43:39
Okay. So, I have a lot of thoughts around this.

Jillian Leslie 43:41
Please.

Nikki Rausch 43:42
We’ll see. Because this might be counter to you. Here’s what I will say if what you’re doing is working, keep doing it.

Jillian Leslie 43:49
Okay.

Nikki Rausch 43:50
If you’re not getting the results that you want, as a sales coach, here would be my advice. One; when something seems too good to be true, people will rarely take you up on it. So, this idea that you’re going to offer this like free advice.

This, can often cause people to not want to get on the call with you because they’re not sure. Like, there’s no way she’s not going to sell to me.

Jillian Leslie 44:14
Very interesting.

Nikki Rausch 44:15
You’re on the receiving end and you take somebody up on an offer and all they do is sell sell, sell, sell, sell. So, I think that causes people to not even schedule the call with you.

Jillian Leslie 44:28
That probably is the reason why I’m going like seriously, because my assumption is, they hear my podcast they know me, I’m not going to sell, I’m going to explain how we can help them.

I only want you to join if we both think it’s a good fit, and if I can provide value.

Nikki Rausch 44:51
So, here’s my suggestion instead for you specifically, because you have all this background and knowledge. offer an assessment.

Jillian Leslie 45:00
Whoo, okay,

Nikki Rausch 45:02
And do an assessment instead. I do this, by the way, this is a way to get on a free call with me, it’s one of the only ways you can get on a free call with me is to do a selling strength assessment.

Now, all questions should lead to the program. So, it should help them identify quickly. Yes, I’m a fit for this or no, but the assessment is still something that they walk away with.

If people do a selling strength assessment with me, they always walk away with information about themselves that they didn’t know, before they got on the call. So, it’s helpful.

It also helps them identify things. Sometimes people get on the call, and I’m like, they’re rocking the sales, I don’t really know why they got on the call with me. But they feel really good about themselves when they leave.

They’re not an ideal client for me. And it helps me identify really quickly whether or not they are an ideal client, and whether or not we’re going to even have a sales conversation at the end.

And I set it up, I pre-frame at the beginning, the purpose of this call is to learn a little bit more about you so that you walk away with some information about yourself.

And if it makes sense for us to have a further conversation about ways to work together, we’ll do that at the end.

Jillian Leslie 46:09
Oh, okay. How are you framing that differently than what I’m framing? Is mine too general?

Nikki Rausch 46:17
I’m not coaching. So, I’m not coaching.

Jillian Leslie 46:20
Okay.

Nikki Rausch 46:20
The thing that I will say about coaching, I love to give lots of information away for free. And I do it through my podcast, I do it on my free trainings that I do every month. You can search my name and find me.

I think I’m on over 150 podcasts outside of my own podcast. So, there’s tons of content available out there for people who have no interest in paying me money, but do want to learn from me, there’s ways to do that.

But if you want individual feedback, suggestions about your business, I don’t recommend doing that until people pay you money. And here’s why.

Jillian Leslie 46:57
Okay.

Nikki Rausch 46:59
Jillian, you’re an expert, you know, so much. And imagine that there’s this big beautiful beach, behind you, and on the beach is all your resources and all your expertise and all the things that you bring to the table.

But the person who’s getting on that call with you, they don’t know about the beach, and all that. They know, you know something, and you give them what you think is like a little grain of sand.

It’s something that’s going to help them. It’s going be useful to them. But really where they’re going to get the transformation in their life is by accessing the resources behind you on this beach. They don’t know about the beach.

So, they think that when you give them that grain of sand, you gave them the beach, and now there’s no reason to hire you.

And why this is a disservice to people is because they walk away. And they think like, oh my gosh, this is life changing. This is awesome. This is so great. But they miss out on all that you can really do for them.

So, I don’t recommend coaching for free. I don’t recommend giving advice for free.

Jillian Leslie 47:59
So, we call it an assessment. And then through the assessment, I’m saying what are you struggling with? And here’s how we can get you there?

Nikki Rausch 48:07
No, you’re going to have very specific questions in the assessment. By the way, this is something you and I could work on.

Jillian Leslie 48:14
I know exactly.

Nikki Rausch 48:16
I can come up with this assessment. I know we’re on audio. So, I’m going to show this to you. This is an example of my assessment.

Jillian Leslie 48:28
Oh, wow. And you give this to people, this is what you’ll give them?

Nikki Rausch 48:32
I do this over Zoom. They don’t actually see this.

Jillian Leslie 48:36
By the way for people who are listening, Nikki is holding up kind of like a checklist.

Nikki Rausch 48:42
It’s a checklist. So, there are specific questions on my selling strength assessment. And all of these questions, by the way, are things that I coach around.

For instance, one of my questions, I have my assessment set up for people to say, yes, I do this, sometimes I do it or no, that might not work in your format. We might need a different format for you.

I like this because it’s fast. And it gets people moving through the conversation. So, one of the questions and it’s not even a question, I will say to somebody, for instance, “You know how to create curiosity when you’re talking about your products or services?”

And people will say, “Yes, Nikki. I know how to do this, or I don’t even know what you mean by curiosity.” Okay. So, now I’m making a check on this. I’m putting that so that when I go back through the assessment, one of the things I’ll talk about.

Let’s say that they’re like, “What do you mean curiosity?” Well, curiosity is one of the biggest things that I teach on how to create that curiosity.

Because that opens the door for us to move to the next step in the selling staircase, which is discovery, and that’s where we get into this consultation.

So, if they say no, when I’m talking back through the assessment, I’m going to say one of the areas that I would recommend that you focus on is learning how to create curiosity, because this is going to prompt people to take you up on your offer.

This is going to open the door for you to even be able to talk about your business more. This is going to work for you at networking events. I’m going to talk about how curiosity. I’m going to tell them what, like the what of it.

I’m not going to teach them how to create curiosity because you get that when you sign up for The Sales Maven Society. I have a whole course on creating curiosity. I talk about it constantly. I coach about it constantly. That’s where people pay me money.

Jillian Leslie 50:37
This is terrific. So, really what I hear you saying, you could tell me if this is right, is you’re talking more meta with somebody?

Nikki Rausch 50:45
Yes.

Jillian Leslie 50:45
You’re talking about concepts. And I’m going deeper. And by going deeper, in a weird way. It could be like dating. I might be giving away too much at the beginning, rather than holding back talking about like, let’s say, we’re on a date.

And I talk about all the interesting things that I’m about but I’m not just laying it out there. And I’m not going home with you that first night. I’m really just talking much more generally about what I could offer you, but I’m not offering it yet.

Nikki Rausch 51:24
It’s not even about like what you could offer. It’s like, what’s their problem? What’s their need? Helping them start to have some ideas around where are the sticking points in their business.

And in order for them to get the results. In order for them to start to make some changes, come join the program, because this is where you’re going to learn all of these things.

But we have to help them. I talked about creating curiosity, but I will guarantee you people who don’t know a lot about sales, probably are thinking right now, what does she mean, create curiosity in order to sell more.

I’m telling you right now, it’s the number one misstep in the selling staircase for most people. And because most people don’t know how to do it and do it, well, they never even get to put an offer in front of somebody.

So, it is crucial to the sales conversation, that people learn how to create curiosity. But you don’t know that until I asked that question.

Jillian Leslie 52:23
Interesting. So, then you create the need, because then I go, I don’t know this.

Nikki Rausch 52:29
Maybe I should learn how to create curiosity, so that I could have more real conversations with prospects versus talking at a bunch of people who are not listening to me.

Jillian Leslie 52:40
I think that is so powerful to see them based on this, I can see in my own mind the shift. And again, I think it is going more meta of here are the things that we will be teaching like, do you know about this?

Or what are your like? What have you been doing when it comes to this? And they go, “Nothing.” And I go, “Oh, well, this is something that we will be talking about.”

Nikki Rausch 53:04
And you don’t even have to sell then by the way, because you’re going to actually go through the whole assessment. Before you give any suggestions. Or before you even position this offer that you have.

You want to get through the questions because it may come out in a different way with the information, they share with a different question that you’re going to position the offer a little bit differently. So, you want to get through your assessment questions first.

Jillian Leslie 53:31
And by doing that, though, I’m learning where this is kind of what you were saying, I know where they are. I know where their strengths are. I know where their weaknesses are and things that they might not even know. They don’t know.

Nikki Rausch 53:42
They don’t know, because you’re the expert.

Jillian Leslie 53:44
Right. So, it’s like there’s that thing of like the known knowns, the known unknowns and the unknown unknowns, do you know about this? It’s a thing. But anyway, it’s this idea of, you don’t even know to know about a curiosity.

And so, we’re going to then learn about that.

Nikki Rausch 54:04
We’re going to plant a seed around it, so that people start to go, Hmm, maybe I need to learn about those curiosities and what will that do for my business?

Jillian Leslie 54:12
I think that that is so powerful. And you’ve given me a whole different way of thinking about when I get on a call with somebody, because I do get the feedback of like, “Oh my God, you’re being so helpful.”

And I think I’m giving them a taste of what it is. But you’re right, they don’t know that this is just a taste.

Nikki Rausch 54:33
They have no idea to taste and they won’t value what they don’t pay for. That’s just the facts like when we get stuff for free. Look at this thing.

And then we put it away on a shelf and we go like, I’m totally going to come back to that. But it’s not that important because I didn’t spend any money on it.

Jillian Leslie 54:50
Completely. I go to conferences; I went back in the day and you get a lot of swag. And there have been times that like I’ve gone home with like a Google Home. And I do not value it as much as if I went to Best Buy and bought one.

I know that that seems crazy because I could go resell it, but it’s that idea of yes, you’re right. I am a big believer in that.

Nikki Rausch 55:17
And I found like over the years because I test all the things that I do, because again, I’m teaching selling, but I also am selling my services all the time. So, I test everything that I do.

If it doesn’t work for me, I’m not going to teach you how to do it. I walk my talk. And I really do. So, I have found over the years specifically in my private coaching, as my prices go up, people take my work more serious.

And they get bigger, faster results, the more money they pay me. Now, that doesn’t mean that my price now is like it’s $50,000 to work with me, it isn’t. And my private coaching clients get unbelievable results.

I had a client last year that brought an additional $100,000 from a program that she paid me $4,000 for. Because she paid $4,000 and she’s like, I am going to do the work that Nikki suggests.

And then she went out and brought in all this extra revenue into her business. That’s the kind of results. But if I had charged her $10 for that same training, she would not have gotten the results that she got, it’s like you have to have some skin in the game.

So, right now by just giving all of this expertise, Jillian that you have, there’s no skin in the game for them to implement.

Therefore, they’re not going to hire you. They’re not going to be good ambassadors out in the marketplace, because people are going to be like, “Hey, what do you think about Jillian?”

They’re going to be like, “Well, I had a call with her. She gave me some good advice. But yeah, I didn’t really see any results.” Well, you didn’t see any results because you didn’t implement and you didn’t implement because you didn’t pay for it.

Jillian Leslie 56:59
I think that is so powerful. I do. Okay. Will you come back on the show for part two? Because I feel like we have so much more to discuss.

Nikki Rausch 57:12
Absolutely. I’d be happy to. I’d be honored.

Jillian Leslie 57:14
Oh, I love that just because I feel like you are sharing so much wisdom, like so many things I’m writing down because I love the way that you think.

And my biggest takeaway from what you’re sharing is that you can do sales in a kind and helpful, gentle and productive way. And that there are systems you can use to really get the results you’re looking for. Is that right?

Nikki Rausch 57:50
That is totally right. I’m all about, that’s my word kind, incredible. I only speak about things that I know. And it always comes from a place of kindness.

Sales Is Something You do With People Not To People

Because I truly believe that sales is something that you do with people, it’s not something you do to people. So, yes, I’d be happy to come back and talk more about sales.

Jillian Leslie 58:13
Especially because this year, I’m really one, leaning in my own business, but also hopefully guiding my listeners to take this seriously.

To say if you want to see acceleration in your business, it’s time to think about products, it’s time to be uncomfortable. It’s time to implement the stuff that you’re talking about strategically.

Thinking about your language, thinking about the person you’re selling to. Putting them first and their problems and their needs first. And so, I feel like you are a really great resource to take the ickiness out of sales.

To take the discomfort, not that again, there is discomfort. Know that, but yet to normalize it. So, we don’t have to get in bed for three days, and think it’s us and think the world hates us. And we have nothing to offer.

So, I think that your messaging is so powerful. So, Nikki, if people want to learn more about you and get in touch with you What is the best way?

Nikki Rausch 59:16
Well, the easiest way is wrapped around a gift for your audience. So, if you like this idea of selling and doing it from an authentic place, then my gift to your listener is to download my eBook. It’s called, “Closing the Sale.”

And it talks through some of this language that we’ve been playing around with a little bit and some ways to approach sales with confidence. And you can get that by going to”Closing the Sale.”, M-A-V-E-N forward slash MiloTree.

And that will be something you can download you’ll be on my website then will now be connected I will email it to you. So, that’s the easiest way is to go to yoursalesmaven.com/milotree and get the eBook ‘Closing the Sale’.

Jillian Leslie 59:59
And also, then you can watch how Nikki does sales.

Nikki Rausch 1:00:03
Yes. There’s lots, lots, lots of ways for you to see how I do sales.

Jillian Leslie 1:00:08
Which I think is terrific. Well, Nikki, I just have to say, you are my first friend in Boise. So, it has been such a pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Nikki Rausch 1:00:19
Thank you for having me.

Jillian Leslie 1:00:20
I hope you guys have liked this episode. For me. I love Nikki’s energy. She’s so soft spoken, I feel her integrity, and she is talking about selling stuff. So, I want you to see that those things can go hand in hand.

I’m hoping to continue this conversation in my Facebook group. So, if you’re not part of it, please join the Become A Blogger Genius Facebook group.

Because I would love to hear what you think about this, so that we can dissect this together so that we can change our limiting beliefs around selling. I think we could all benefit from that myself included.

But let’s put ourselves out there.

To really build the businesses we want to build and to have the freedom we want to have, and I will see you here again next week.

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