The Essential Mindset Shift Every Blogger Needs for 2025

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In my newest episode of The Blogger Genius Podcast, I interviewed online business coach, Jenny Melrose, where we delve into the evolving landscape of online business and blogging, particularly as we look ahead to 2025.

Table of Contents

Shifting Mindsets: From Pageviews to People

One of the central themes of the episode is the critical need for bloggers and online entrepreneurs to transition from merely chasing pageviews to focusing on building meaningful connections with their audience. Jenny and I argue that the landscape of online business has changed, and success now hinges on how well one can serve and educate their audience rather than just generating traffic.

The Essential Mindset Shift Every Blogger Needs for 2025 | MiloTree

Show Notes:

Key Takeaways

Focus on Relationships:Building a loyal audience is more important than ever. Instead of focusing solely on pageviews, prioritize creating content that addresses the specific needs and problems of your audience.
Educator Mindset: See yourself as an educator and expert in your field. This shift in perspective can help you create more valuable content and build stronger connections with your audience.

Building a Strong Foundation

Jenny highlights that many entrepreneurs struggle at the foundational level of their business. She points out that a significant number of clients come to her with websites that are cluttered and unfocused, making it difficult for visitors to understand what they offer. A well-structured website is essential for nurturing relationships and driving sales.

Website Essentials

Opt-in Opportunities: Your homepage should prominently feature an opt-in or freebie to encourage visitors to join your email list. This should be placed above the fold, ensuring that it’s visible without scrolling
Clear Navigation: Ensure that your website has clear navigation to three main areas of your business, such as educational resources, services, and products. This helps visitors quickly understand what you offer and how they can benefit.
Content Integration: Showcase your latest blog posts, podcast episodes, and other content, along with additional opt-in opportunities to keep visitors engaged.

Nurturing Your Audience

I reiterate the importance of an email list as the most effective way to nurture relationships with potential customers. The number of social media followers is not as important as having a dedicated list of engaged subscribers who are interested in what you have to offer.

Actionable Tips:

Email Marketing: Focus on growing your email list and regularly engage with your subscribers through valuable content and offers.
Personal Touch: Use your email list to build personal connections with your audience. Share your story, insights, and behind-the-scenes content to foster a sense of community.

Clarity and Strategy

Jenny positions herself as an educator who provides clarity and strategic plans for her clients. She encourages entrepreneurs to focus on solving specific problems for their audience, which can lead to the development of products and services that people are willing to pay for.

Strategic Steps:

Identify Problems: Conduct keyword research to understand the problems your audience is searching for solutions to.
Content Distribution: Choose three platforms to distribute your content consistently, whether it be through podcasts, blog posts, or videos. For instance, if you start with a podcast, transcribe the audio into a blog post for greater visibility and engagement.
Product Development: Develop products and services that address the specific needs of your audience. This positions you as an expert and creates additional revenue streams.

Overcoming Overwhelm

Many entrepreneurs feel overwhelmed by the myriad of options available to them. Break down your goals into manageable tasks and prioritize them based on their impact on your business. Don’t hesitate to seek support from mentors, coaches, or online communities to help you stay focused and motivated.

Learning from Experience

Jenny reflects on her journey as a former lifestyle blogger and the lessons learned from her experiences, including the challenges of algorithm changes and the importance of adapting to the evolving digital landscape. We both stress the value of sharing these lessons to help others avoid similar pitfalls.

Lessons Learned:

Adaptability: Stay flexible and be willing to adapt your strategies as the digital landscape changes.
Continuous Learning: Invest in your education and stay updated with the latest trends and best practices in your industry.

Final Thoughts

Focus on building a solid foundation for their businesses, prioritize nurturing your audience, and embrace a mindset of education and problem-solving. By doing so, you can position yourself as an expert in your field and create sustainable, scalable businesses in the ever-evolving online landscape.

Other Related Blogger Genius Podcast episodes You’ll Enjoy:

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Transcription #357: The Essential Mindset Shift Every Blogger Needs for 2025

Jillian Leslie 00:00:06 Hello and welcome back to the show. I’m your host, Jillian Leslie, and I’m also founder of software startup MiloTree. Before we dive into today’s episode, I am so excited to share that our MiloTree Black Friday sale is just around the corner starting Friday, November 22nd, which is in two days. We’re bringing back our lifetime deal, but just for a limited time. If you are a blogger ready to start selling your knowledge, grow your email list and social media followers, and build a thriving business in 2025, this is the opportunity you’ve been waiting for. And here’s the best part. Join the waitlist and you’ll get access to the sale tomorrow, along with an exclusive early bird bonus worth $250. So to do this, to join the waitlist, go to milotree.com/earlybird. And you will get an email from me tomorrow with all the details. Now onto today’s episode. I’m so excited to welcome back my friend Jenny Melrose to the Blogger Genius podcast. Jenny is a business strategist and she’s the voice.

Jillian Leslie 00:01:21 She’s the host of the Influencer Entrepreneur podcast. She’s been on my show a bunch of times and I’ve been on hers, and she is an expert at helping online entrepreneurs stop trading time for money and build scalable, sustainable businesses. In this episode, we’re diving into what business building in 2025 is going to look like. Jenny shares her insights on why bloggers and service providers need to shift their mindsets. The role of personal branding in a world increasingly dominated by Bye, and how to stop chasing random pageviews and start building a business that’s truly people focused. Jenny breaks it all down in a way that’s simple, actionable, and game changing. So without further ado, here is my interview with Jenny Melrose. Jenny, welcome back to the Blogger Genius podcast.

Jenny Melrose 00:02:22 Thank you, Jillian, so much for having me again. I am so excited.

Jillian Leslie 00:02:26 Jenny, you’ve been I don’t know, I have to go back and look how many times you have been on my show and I’ve been on your show, but I feel like this goes back a while and I love checking in with you every so often to say, Jenny, what are you seeing on your end? Because this is what I’m seeing.

Jillian Leslie 00:02:43 So, Jenny, will you just explain kind of quickly who you are and who you serve and what you do?

Jenny Melrose 00:02:49 Yes. Of course. So my name is Jenny Melrose. I ran the lifestyle site The Melrose Family from 2010 10 to 2019. I sold it in 2019 for six figures, and at that time, 2019, the day before I closed on the site sale, I was hosting my first in-person conference called Influencer Entrepreneurs Academy, and I now host those virtually, as well as have a podcast called Influencer Entrepreneurs, which Jillian, like you said, you have been on before and we just recently did an updated episode. and then I also have a membership called Influencer Entrepreneur Insiders, where I’m really teaching female business owners how to stop trading time for money and start being able to give them differentiated business education that’s going to help them actually grow their online business in the digital space.

Jillian Leslie 00:03:50 It’s so interesting because we were just talking about this right before I pressed record. I see a lot of these same people coaches, chiropractors, whatever, where they feel like they are beholden to their clients and terrified that they’re going to lose them, or they need to get more.

Jillian Leslie 00:04:10 And I to talk a lot about, okay, how do you build how do you become an entrepreneur rather than a service provider?

Jenny Melrose 00:04:20 Yes. Oh my goodness. So much so. And I think even bloggers that the bloggers that I’m working with now are also seeing themselves in this light, because so often they were chasing pageviews, which really was time for money in the way that they were doing it, because they’re getting all these followers on social media. And now we’re seeing that doesn’t equate to actual income with the way that the algorithms have reacted. So because of that, my clients are focused on deciding what they see themselves as an expert or as an educator of and Creating digital products and services that they can provide to that audience through their content that they are attracting them with, that solves a problem for them.

Jillian Leslie 00:05:04 Now, here’s a question how then, do you recommend somebody get their content out there? If you’re saying, well, social media might not be the best way, what is what is like the top of the funnel for you?

Jenny Melrose 00:05:17 Yes.

Jenny Melrose 00:05:18 So the top is going to be where are you initially putting out your content. So I recommend choosing three places. And we’re going to still use keyword research. We still have to understand the problems that are people are searching for within Google to find an answer to their solution. So I always recommend, no matter if you’re going to do video, a podcast or a blog post, you have to start with your keyword research and then have one platform that you are consistently putting out the content on that you are then going to use as a blog post. So if you’re starting with a podcast, because like myself, I only like audio, I’d rather not have to start with writing. I will take the audio. We transcribe it into an audio blog post where they then can find the content, and I can email my list with it. They can go through and read it, they can share it, and it can actually get found by Google. I’m still ranking for very specific terms, and it’s how I’m attracting my clients.

Jenny Melrose 00:06:16 So if you start with a podcast, you’re going to turn it into a blog post. If you start with YouTube, you are going to turn that YouTube video into an actual blog post. And then if you want to start with a blog post, you can start with just writing a blog post and having that content. My therapist, my service based businesses that are coming to me, they’re looking for website visibility. And in order to do that, you have to be creating keyword research content still, but with the intention of solving a very specific problem for an intended audience. It’s not the keyword research of old of how many page views can I get? And let’s write as many things as we possibly can that are all Italian dinners. Even my food bloggers that work with me are very specific in what they are creating content for, so that they can be seen as that expert or educator in a specific niche of food. So if they create Italian recipes, they are an educator on how to use Italian seasonings and specific Italian tomatoes that are going to make their food taste that much better.

Jenny Melrose 00:07:21 And then they offer cooking classes, and they offer all different products and services that then can fall into line with that.

Jillian Leslie 00:07:28 I feel like what you say is so much aligned with what I say. What happens, I think, are these windows open? And then they close in online business and being on online for as long as you and I have, we’ve seen this happen over and over again, and especially during the pandemic especially, say if you are a food blogger or who knows what you found a way to go after low competition keywords kind of game the system in a way. I know you’re not really supposed to say that, but that’s kind of what you were doing. You were writing content for Google. You wanted page views, you wanted ad revenue. And when I would be saying, guys, guys, guys, I have a feeling this window is going to close and you need to set yourself up for the long term. I don’t think people heard me because it was like, well, I’m on this, I’m on this treadmill and I can’t get off it.

Jillian Leslie 00:08:20 And I feel like what you are proposing and it’s very much aligned with what I’m proposing, is everybody’s business might look different, like maybe your e-book is like, what takes off and it’s my membership, or you’re doing like in-person retreats. And so all of a sudden like that becomes a bigger part of your business where maybe that’s not a part of my business, but it becomes how do I take my knowledge and sell it to real people, rather than I’m chasing all these random pageviews or quote unquote users? It’s now much more about me being me and you saying, okay, I want to learn from her. Can you talk about this idea of expert versus educator? Because I know you started as an educator, and how I think that might help people see themselves differently.

Jenny Melrose 00:09:19 Yes. So I use the words interchangeably. And my people know that any time I introduce myself, whether I’m speaking in person or I’m doing a webinar, I always talk about the fact that I’m a former inner city school district teacher, and that gives me the confidence to be able to speak in front of people when I am naturally an introvert and hate public speaking.

Jenny Melrose 00:09:42 So I’m able to fall into that kind of thinking, okay, I’m used to dodging chairs from little kids. I can handle talking to a bunch of adults and teaching them the things that I have either done myself or helped other clients do. Because of course, I was a lifestyle blogger. I didn’t write about home decor, but I can still help that home decor blogger. I wasn’t a therapist, but I still understand the business strategies are going to need to be put in place in order for them to stop trading their time for money in the therapy room. So I think it’s really important when we are looking at this, to be able to determine what direction we’re trying to go. Who are we really trying to serve? Because I feel like that’s the piece that a lot of people miss. They think I’m going to throw out this wide net and they go after that red ocean where everyone’s going after that, where in reality you need the blue ocean where it’s your person. So instead of doing keyword research with how many pageviews can I get from all these random people? Instead, I’m doing keyword research based on that person and the problems that I’m trying to solve for them.

Jenny Melrose 00:10:51 So for me, female business owners that are small businesses that are looking to be able to increase their digital presence more than anything else, and that is what I’m looking for, for the solutions and the problems that I’m going to talk about, that I can then provide them a solution.

Jillian Leslie 00:11:07 For what’s interesting. And what I hear you saying is that we while the internet is really big now, we’re weirdly shrinking ourselves down to be people. And I think that this makes so much sense in this world of AI, where everything is going to be or is available, all knowledge is available. What isn’t available is me that I get to say work with you Jenny, and that Jenny gets to be in a relationship with me, and that is something that ChatGPT can’t do. And so therefore, it’s like thinking about your person as a person instead of as a user, instead of as a page view, instead of as somebody who like almost as if, like as bloggers, we were kind of on a mountaintop, like yelling, like kind of yelling down to the masses and hoping they showed up for us, but not because we cared about them.

Jillian Leslie 00:12:12 We cared about this weird metric that then translated into money. And what is interesting is when I have gotten on calls with a lot of online entrepreneurs and I have said especially those that were chasing pageviews, for example, like they knew they should be selling their knowledge, but there was like a disconnect. And when I said, hey, let’s start thinking about your audience as actual people, that you have a connection with it changed their whole vibe and they would many times say to me, oh my God, you’ve given me a new window into seeing my business, making it kind of like that’s probably why they started in the first place, because they wanted to help people. Then they got kind of removed from that. And now I’m saying, go back to that now for you with like, let’s say, your therapist, they’re almost two kind of specific people like clients and therefore they want to go broader to sell to more people to have a membership or, you know, still, let’s say go from in-person coaching to online coaching, just ways to scale their businesses.

Jillian Leslie 00:13:23 However, it is still or even more so, person specific, not information specific.

Jenny Melrose 00:13:33 Yes. And I’m going to say something very controversial and probably gets some people upset with me. But please, bloggers that were chasing page views are I? They’re what they’re so upset about. That’s why they’re being replaced. They’re being replaced because they were like, I they would just ask a question and they would spit it out for whoever wanted the answer for, and they were spitting it out for all these different people. But if instead they had become and still can do that, become that educator of that specific niche that’s going to teach people how to do something based on their experiences and based on their opinions, it’s a whole other ballgame. I can’t do that. That is not what I is. You will not be replaced if you were able to put in the points in the personal branding, that gives people an opportunity to connect and want to buy from you. That is the difference right now. And as upset as many people have gotten over the algorithm changes with Google, they’re shouting at you that you need to do this.

Jenny Melrose 00:14:38 They’re telling you you can’t simply be a machine that just spits out a bunch of of recipes or a bunch of all these different things that are going to attract all these different people. We’re creating something that does that. You, in turn, have to come in with a personal brand and a voice and be able to educate people and get them to connect with you.

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Jillian Leslie 00:15:52 Head to milotree.com/freebieprompts now, and start connecting with the people who matter most to your business. Now back to the show. I think for a lot of people, a lot of people in my audience are women. I think we have a harder time stepping into that role. I think, you know, it’s like back. This is what I would say in my experience. And maybe your blog started this way. A lot of people’s blogs started as hobbies. I want to talk about whatever. And then all of a sudden they realized they could make money at this and they were like, whoa! And then they got smarter and smarter in terms of keywords and things like that. But I don’t think they ever started saying I’m an online entrepreneur. Now there are those people who, like, figure this out and say, I am an online entrepreneur, which means I need a niche and I need to become an expert, and I need to put my, you know, and those people are like, they know what business building looks like.

Jillian Leslie 00:16:59 I feel like your therapist, let’s say, don’t think of themselves as online entrepreneurs either, because they went down to be like they became the therapist. And now all of a sudden it’s like, okay, let’s widen your view of what this means. but I feel like over like people are continuing to get the memo of, you want a successful online business or you want a successful business today, here are the ingredients you need to create it.

Jenny Melrose 00:17:27 Yes, 100%. My therapists are wanting to become online entrepreneurs because they’re tired of up being held at a certain income status because they have to trade their time for the therapy room. That’s the only way that they can make their money. But if they can come up with the digital products and services that passively happen, of course I’m seeing it with air quotes because we know all know it’s work that goes into it, but they don’t have to trade their time for their money in the therapy room. And what you said about the bloggers who see themselves as online entrepreneurs, those are the clients that I have worked with.

Jenny Melrose 00:18:01 We worked through Covid and realizing as a travel blogger no one is traveling. No one is interested in this content. But instead, she reinvented herself as a travel business, an online site that now can walk you through being able to give you an itinerary for when you want to travel to Ireland, to being able to actually take you to Ireland with her and do mass trips. I mean, her business, I and it’s Jodi Halstead who has been blogging forever. You’re probably familiar with her. she has Ireland family vacations, and I remember coaching her during Covid and my heart breaking for her. But we came up with a plan to say, okay, this isn’t going to last forever. And when it’s done, you’re going to be in the forefront of everyone’s mind because you’re going to be set up as that business that’s going to grow their list, that has one piece of content that you’re putting out consistently. Engage them for podcasts, which she turns into blog post, which you then get them onto her email list, and then she promotes her Ireland book, her Ireland planner, her itineraries, and her in person travel, actual tours that sell out within the first 24 hours of her offering up a tour.

Jenny Melrose 00:19:20 Because she can only bring so many families. It’s the reinventing yourself of stop calling yourself just a blogger and think of yourself as a business owner. Who are you solving a problem for? And how are you solving it? And create the products and services that can go along with it. Everything just falls into place when you stop trying to create content for everyone.

Jillian Leslie 00:19:47 I think that is so wise. And I want to say when you say it like that, it’s simple. If you are listening to this and you’re struggling with, well, I don’t know what problem I am solving. Like take a moment and really look at your analytics. Look at your top blog posts, look at whatever social media posts you’re making, what is doing well. And I’m going to say you might fight me on this. Go that way. Start there. Like, I can’t tell you how many online entrepreneurs I have talked to who are trying to solve way too many problems for their audience because they don’t want to miss out.

Jillian Leslie 00:20:38 Yes, and you have.

Jenny Melrose 00:20:38 To get clear on that. Clear.

Jillian Leslie 00:20:40 Like, I feel like as we’re talking, I’m like, oh my God, you’ve given me. Because this is where I see people struggle.

Jenny Melrose 00:20:48 Yes. So I actually have a strategic growth plan guide that walks them through figuring out their positioning and their audience. And how are you going to make sure that you’re the expert slash educator. It walks them through exactly how to get a plan in place to be able to do this. Because I watch too many bloggers get frustrated because their affiliate income has gotten hit and their sponsorships they don’t want enough that they really do, and their ad income. If they had just stopped growing an email list and talk to their people and use the analytics from their email list to also help them determine what is driving traffic, what are my people clicking on? Why are they interested in my food bloggers who have done really well and have succeeded through everything that we’re seeing right now? It’s largely because they have a list where they are consistently emailing their people and they’re watching to see, okay, these are people have already raised their hands and said they love me.

Jenny Melrose 00:21:46 What do they want more of from me? That’s how you figure out your expertise, because they already have you on a pedestal. And if you’re just starting out, but do you love to do what are your people in real life asking you questions about?

Speaker 3 00:22:03 Ask them.

Jenny Melrose 00:22:03 Put it on their Facebook, ask them, hey, what do you see me as an expert in? What could I teach you today? What do you feel like I could teach you? They’re going to tell you. People know you for certain things, and that is what you need to line your business mission and positioning it towards so that it becomes that much easier to attract the right people.

Jillian Leslie 00:22:24 I feel like.

Speaker 3 00:22:26 You.

Jillian Leslie 00:22:27 Have really just broken it down. Like just this conversation has given me so much clarity on like where you’re seeing people struggle. I’m seeing people struggle. And it’s literally at the first step.

Jenny Melrose 00:22:41 Yes, it’s foundationally even as simple as their websites. Do you know how many clients that start with me that were 500,000 pages? And I go to their website and all I see are random posts.

Jenny Melrose 00:22:57 I have no idea how they’re growing their email list. I have no idea what they’re an educator, an expert in. They have no way of telling me that they offer books, services, anything. Your website homepage should be set up one. Get people on your dang list and you better be offering a freebie or an opt in. And it should be a squeezed page. It should be at the very top before we even below the fold. No one should have to scroll in order to see your opt in, then I want you to actually give me navigation to the three pieces of your business that are going to give me an idea of what you offer and how you can serve me. So if you give education, one maybe might be your podcast. Maybe you give resources and you have a membership where they can actually work one on one with you, or you have an e-book that’s going to be part of a paid product, you have to have three pieces of navigation so they know where to go.

Jenny Melrose 00:23:55 And those should be landing pages that then describe what it is that you do to then get into the content. Show me your latest blog post. Show me your latest podcast episodes. Show me that YouTube video that’s actually embedded within a blog post, and then give me another opt in down towards the bottom so we’re squeezing the material together. Your most important thing is to get people on your list. That is the only way you are going to be a viable business going forward, right?

Jillian Leslie 00:24:25 Because your list is your best way to nurture your people and sell to them. I say this all the time. It is not how many followers you have on Instagram. Okay, Jenny, if people want your clarity because I feel like you as an educator sell clarity.

Jenny Melrose 00:24:49 Yes. And a plan because I’m picked up by that and a little bit of a crazy person when it comes to it because I like. Okay.

Jillian Leslie 00:24:54 But again, I think it is you teach.

Speaker 3 00:24:58 People, you lead.

Jillian Leslie 00:24:59 Them down a, down a road to find clarity and like you like clarity and you teach people how to like it in their own business.

Jenny Melrose 00:25:11 Yes, 100%.

Jillian Leslie 00:25:13 I always am preaching this. Less is more, less is more. And if you’re worried about your fonts or your.

Speaker 3 00:25:21 Logo.

Jillian Leslie 00:25:22 You are in the wrong direction.

Jenny Melrose 00:25:26 Oh, the amount of time that gets wasted on branding I can’t even. Don’t get me started. If you go to my, my home page Jennie melrose.com. It will strategically walk you through the services that I offer, the things that I can give you. The strategic growth plan is right there at the top and then down towards the bottom, because I find clients are always very overwhelmed with all the shiny objects. There’s a mastering overwhelm guide. That is another option that you can potentially a guide that you can get to help you kind of look through and figure out the best ways to go forward. And then on that page is also on my podcast. There is over 400 episodes. I’ve been podcasting for eight years. It’s crazy to say out loud, but there is a ton of content with free resources to really be able to educate yourself.

Jillian Leslie 00:26:16 I love that, so that’s the place people should go. Jenny melrose.com.

Jenny Melrose 00:26:21 Yes, 100%.

Jillian Leslie 00:26:22 Can we make a date for, I don’t know, six months or a year where we check in again to see if our audiences are starting to understand these pieces, to see where people are. Because I love checking in with you to say, okay, like, where are people struggling? Where you seeing people struggle? And here’s and I feel like we are seeing the same thing. I think building an online business today is easier if you’ve incorporated this way of thinking. If you’ve built your business with another model, I think it is more difficult to start to see the world that we’re describing. So please, like sit with this and sit. Just ask yourself some simple questions of what problem can I solve for people that people will pay me for the end 100%?

Jenny Melrose 00:27:18 And you have to start thinking about if you have been blogging for a long time and you don’t, how can I go back? You just gotta foundationally put some things back inside.

Jenny Melrose 00:27:27 You got to fix those cracks. Your foundation wasn’t built like a business. Your foundation was like a blogger chasing pageviews. And that’s a problem in this day and age. So we got to go back and just fix your foundation. Most of the bloggers I work with, from the baby bloggers that are just getting started to foundationally set it up, and then I have bloggers that are veterans that have been blogging for ten, 15 years that are like, I hear you, I see what you’re saying, how do I fix this piece of my foundation? And the first place is to always look? Is are you growing your email list with the right opt in that is attracting the right people because you know the problem that you solve?

Jillian Leslie 00:28:05 All right, Jenny, so we have another date. But I just have to say, it is really fun seeing you again. And I feel like you and I do see the world in the like, from the same lens and like, we’re like yelling out these messages.

Jillian Leslie 00:28:21 So it’s it’s nice to have the two of us.

Jenny Melrose 00:28:23 Yes. And I think that really comes from experience, Jillian, because you have catch my party. I had the Melrose family. We’ve been in it. We’ve watched ourselves make mistakes. We’ve learned from it. We’ve gotten hit with algorithms and platforms disappearing with 660,000 followers on it. It happened, we learned our lesson and we fixed it, and we’ve been shouting it from the rooftop because we don’t want to see other female entrepreneurs make the same mistakes that we made.

Jillian Leslie 00:28:52 Absolutely. All right. Well, I just have to say, Jenny, it has been great to reconnect. And thank you so much for coming back on the show.

Jenny Melrose 00:29:01 Thank you so much for having me.

Jillian Leslie 00:29:03 I hope you guys like this episode. My biggest takeaway from Jenny is how important it is to stop chasing random pageviews and start focusing on creating products and services that truly solve your audience’s problems? Because it’s all about positioning yourself as an expert and building those real human connections. Now, don’t forget our Black Friday sale goes live in just two days.

Jillian Leslie 00:29:30 If you’re a blogger or online entrepreneur, this is your chance to grab milotree.com at an unbelievable price. But it’s only going to be available during Black Friday. And here’s the best part if you want a special early bird bonus, make sure to join the waitlist at Milotree.com/earlybird. If you enjoyed this episode, please make sure you’re subscribed to the show so you never miss an update. And if you know somebody who could benefit from these insights, please share it with them. Thanks for listening and I will see you here again next week.

Shifting Mindsets: From Pageviews to People

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