I’m Jillian Leslie, your host at The Blogger Genius Podcast. Today I’m excited to share Part 2 of my conversation with business coach, Joyce Layman. If you haven’t listened to Part 1, about growing your traffic with GIFs, I recommend it.
In Part 2 we talk about the importance of social media to attract new people to you, and the effectiveness of lead magnets to grow your email list.
Table of Contents
The MiloTree Cart: A Game-Changer for Non-Techies
In our digital age, having the right tools to sell online can make all the difference. That’s why we created MiloTreeCart. This tool is designed for non-techies who want to sell digital products and generate income with ease. The simplicity and affordability of the MiloTreeCart make it a must-have for anyone looking to streamline their online business.
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The Power of Social Media and Email Marketing
In this episode, Joyce and I delve into the world of social media and email marketing. Joyce shares her strategy of using gifs to drive traffic to her blog and explained the concept of recency and relevancy platforms.
Recency platforms, such as Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, and TikTok, are ideal for posting fresh content. On the other hand, relevancy platforms like blogs, Pinterest, and YouTube are perfect for content that remains relevant over time. Joyce advises picking one platform from each category and being consistent in posting content.
We also discussed the effectiveness of email for making money and the importance of opt-ins and quizzes in an online business. Building an email list is invaluable as it allows you to communicate with and sell to subscribers directly.
The Art of Crafting Effective Lead Magnets
Joyce emphasizes the importance of lead magnets in building an email list. She uses two lead magnets, the Visibility Playbook and the Ultimate Lead Magnet Formula, to understand her audience better. She stresses the need for valuable lead magnets that provide a quick win and solve a problem for the audience.
Joyce also shares her thoughts on lead magnets she has seen in a recent summit. She mentiones that quizzes can be effective lead magnets, but they need to be substantial and offer more than just a quick checklist. For instance, a quiz that focuses on the four personality sales types and uses gamification to engage participants is particularly effective.
The Importance of Simplicity and Audience Interaction
Joyce and I agree on the importance of providing quick wins and breaking down complex information for your audience. Joyce explaines that the dopamine response in the brain motivates people to continue and achieve more. By offering small wins and showing progress, you can prevent your audience from giving up.
I share about my upcoming workshop on how to easily create a one-hour paid workshop, where I encourage attendees to provide valuable and easily digestible information. We also discussed the importance of audience interaction and avoiding monologues. Engaging with the audience and making it a dialogue rather than a one-sided presentation is crucial.
Other related Blogger Genius Podcast episodes you’ll enjoy:
- What Is This Secret Strategy to Drive Traffic and Increase Visibility with Joyce Layman (Part 1)
- Skyrocket Your Income: The Blogger’s Guide to Cutting-Edge Email Marketing in 2023 with Kyle Stout
- Unlock the Strategy: $1.5k in First Month from Ebooks & Workshops with Natasha Levai
A Word About MiloTreeCart
Before we wrap up, I’d like to mention MiloTreeCart, the platform we built to help bloggers, online entrepreneurs, and coaches to sell digital products. With Black Friday and the holidays coming up, it’s a great opportunity to make money. Sign up for MiloTreeCart with a one-time payment or three payment option. They also offer a 30-day money-back guarantee and the opportunity to have a call with me to develop your Black Friday strategy.
Transcript: #302: “How Can Lead Magnets Help Build Your Email List?”
Jillian Leslie (00:00:00) – My name is Jillian and I’m hosting the Blogger Genius podcast. Before we get into today’s interview, let me ask you a question. Are you wishing you could sell digital products like digital downloads or workshops, memberships, coaching, mini courses, but you don’t know where to start? And are you tired of complicated tech and spending way too much money on monthly subscriptions? Well, you need a tool that makes all of this simple, and the answer is Milo Tree cart. So this is the tool we built for non techies who want to tap into a new income stream. With military cart, you get fill in the blank sales pages, check out pages, a sales dashboard, upsells, over 100 done for you, marketing materials and support from people who seriously care. If you’ve been dreaming about offering your own Black Friday sale to your audience, definitely had to Milo tree.com and get your payment tool for a one time lifetime deal price of 349. Or you can pay in three easy installments. And if you act now, I will get on a one hour coaching call and help you strategize on how to sell your products and services during Black Friday, Cyber Monday using discounts, bonuses, and upsells.
Jillian Leslie (00:01:22) – Pause right now, head to military.com and join hundreds of other entrepreneurs just like you, using Milo, GA to tap into a whole new income stream. And remember, no risk. We offer a 30 day money back guarantee.
Announcer (00:01:42) – Welcome to the Blogger Genius podcast, brought to you by Milo Tree. Here’s your host, Jillian Leslie.
Jillian Leslie (00:01:50) – Hello my friends. Welcome back to the show. This is part two of my interview with Joyce Lehmann. She’s a business coach. In part one, she shared her unique strategy of using GIFs to drive traffic to her blog. I thought that was so fascinating. If you haven’t been able to listen to that one, I will put a link in the show notes. In this part two, we talk about where you should be spending your time when it comes to social media, why email is such a great way to make money, how to think about opt ins and quizzes I talk about my own quiz that I offer. If you are wondering how all the pieces of an online business fit together, this is the episode for you.
Jillian Leslie (00:02:38) – Now one note I’m starting this episode with the last minute or so that I ended part one. So if you hear something that you’ve heard before, don’t be freaked out. It’ll all make sense without further delay. Here’s part two with Joyce Lehmann.
Joyce Layman (00:02:57) – When I talk about visibility. And if you’re brand new and you’re starting out, any business that you’re doing mean the thought of putting yourself out on YouTube or on social media. It can all be overwhelming. You want to build an email list and you want to do all of this stuff. So it’s about how do you get strategic, really strategic with what you’re doing. And then you start to know where is your traffic coming from. So I tell clients, it’s like, I would rather you pick one recency platform and one relevancy platform. So recency yeah.
Jillian Leslie (00:03:25) – Talk talk about what you mean by this.
Joyce Layman (00:03:28) – Okay. So recency is going to be Instagram Facebook LinkedIn TikTok where you’re going to be posting content. And it has a lifespan of 24 to 48 hours if you’re lucky if you are lucky which means you’ve got to be super consistent.
Joyce Layman (00:03:42) – You’ve got to be out there more often. But those are great. Like, I love Instagram because people will typically do their Instagram profile and do it well versus Facebook. You have a hard time seeing who these people are. So whether you’re reaching out to somebody to go, oh, it might be a potential collaboration, you know, would they fit my ideal client profile on Instagram? You know, pretty quick. On Facebook it’s harder. LinkedIn it’s easier if somebody has written their profile correctly. So to me recency platforms you want to be able to put yourself out there. But it’s where are your ideal clients spending time? I saw this conversation happening in a group. And this woman goes, oh, well, you need to be out on LinkedIn. And I’m like, LinkedIn is great if that’s who your clients are. But if that’s not where your clients are spending time, you’re wasting time. So if you’re going to be on social, just get very strategic about what you’re doing. If you pick a recency platform, know that you need to be super consistent.
Joyce Layman (00:04:39) – But if you’re not getting traction and you’re not running across your ideal clients and stop wasting time ago, you know, go where you need to.
Jillian Leslie (00:04:47) – So talk about relevancy then.
Joyce Layman (00:04:49) – Yes. So relevancy platforms and you’ll appreciate this. Your blog is actually a relevancy based platform because you’re building a library of content. It’s the same way with Pinterest and YouTube. So Giphy. I know it’s that weird relevancy based, but it’s evergreen content that is keyword searchable. YouTube people use it the same way Pinterest has its own search engine. So that’s why if you’re on Pinterest, it can be a phenomenal tool to use for relevancy based, because it’s not like if you post, it’s going to disappear in a feed with millions of other posts every single minute it has a chance to stay. So that’s why I suggest to clients it’s like pick one recency and one relevancy based platform. If you’re starting off, a great way to do it is say you’re going to be on Instagram, write a blog, and with AI, you can write a blog that you can repurpose into multiple forms of content in literally 30 minutes with the help of AI when you’re using the right prompts.
Joyce Layman (00:05:51) – So now what happens is you’re building your Instagram following, and then you have a way to send traffic to your website, which if that’s where your programs, you know you’re about. When people get in more of that, they become problem aware. They start to realize you’re an expert. They want longer form content, which drives them back where you want. And as one who’s written two books, I will tell you I hated writing, but with the help of AI, I love it. And I am creating blogs like crazy by the way. They typically are show notes from my live videos that I just repurpose, although I just did one on business tips you can learn from Barbie, the Movie, the quotes. If you if you watched it and you paid attention, it’s like there’s some pretty profound business quotes in there. You just had to spin them a little bit. But anyway, so recency and relevancy and part of that is how you’re going to be discovered. It’s you know you’ve got to get yourself visible.
Joyce Layman (00:06:45) – So you’re visible through posting consistently. You can’t post a blog one month and not post anything for six months and think it’s going to work. You’ve got to get consistent with what you’re doing, which goes back to you want to get people on an email list? As much as I love social media, you can lose access to platforms overnight and your business just bit it. Just bit it because you have none of those people on an email list that you have a way to communicate with them.
Jillian Leslie (00:07:13) – Yes, and anybody who listens to my show knows how how much I love email and I always talk about this. Social media is top of your funnel. Those people are like fairweather friends. In fact, they will forget you in 10s. So your job is to take those people who find you and give you those 10s, and find a way to get them on your email list. That is how ultimately you can sell from just meeting somebody on email and dripping them content and really building. That relationship to actually selling products and services that can change your life.
Jillian Leslie (00:08:02) – That is the power of email. And I think that it took me back to you saying, like, you know, all the mistakes you made. One of the big ones was everybody said to me, money’s in your list grow, your list grow. And I didn’t get it. I didn’t fully get it, and now I get it. So if somehow you’re listening to this and you’re going, yeah, I don’t get it either, know that here are two women saying, trust us, it is the best way to really sell, to convert people, to tell people a story, not just to entertain them with your cat.
Joyce Layman (00:08:38) – Yes.
Jillian Leslie (00:08:39) – And that people. Although if but if they’re opening your email that is them saying, hey, I’m willing to invest in you now you have certain obligations, which is you need to be transparent and authentic and helpful in your email. It can’t just be that Jillian show. It has to be I’m a human. You’re human. I’m there. I want to serve you and help you.
Jillian Leslie (00:09:07) – And ultimately, I have solutions that you would hopefully feel good buying because you trust me. But that’s where I think the magic happens is through email, not social media. It’s part of it. But if I could pick one or the other, it would always be email every day.
Joyce Layman (00:09:30) – Absolutely. And part of that is you’re thinking about is your listeners. If you’re thinking about your strategy, it’s like so, for example, on because I mentioned funnels earlier, when I have Giphy, it drives to my website. So I have to make sure that my website is people are coming in, it’s what are they interested in. And I always have an option of different lead magnets. I know which lead magnets of mine perform the best. I have that in stats because I know what people are clicking on. It’s super important. It goes back to. So even though because people can find gifts on multiple platforms, it’s kind of impossible to see. Even though I have metrics plugged in exactly where they found me if it came through a GIF.
Joyce Layman (00:10:13) – Now, as an example, YouTube. If they click a link in YouTube, I use twitchy.io. So I have branded links and I know that the same length I can put it on Instagram, YouTube, I can put it on Facebook, but I know depending on which they click, I have that data in my switching platform so I know exactly where that traffic is coming from, even though it’s the same lead magnet that they are clicking on. Does that make sense? So what?
Jillian Leslie (00:10:41) – Tell us. Give me specifics. What is your lead magnet and where is the best place for it to convert for you?
Joyce Layman (00:10:48) – What I have. Well, YouTube is actually done really well and Instagram is also done really well in my bio. In fact, Instagram actually is beat out YouTube. So for me that’s because in your Instagram bio link you can have that one clear link and by God at least use bitly or use some sort of link shortener. So often I see that and it’s like 50 care. It’s like, don’t have a link, don’t have a link that’s 50 characters long there.
Joyce Layman (00:11:18) – But you also want a way to track where it’s coming from. So that takes them into right now I’m using Linktree getting ready to change that. But I have my two lead magnets that they have a choice of. I have two free offers because I want to know is it my visibility playbook or is it my ultimate lead magnet formula? Because that gives me a chance to see. It’s like, which one are they more interested in? They’re both part of what I do within my programs, but yet that helps me to see kind of where they’re at. So that way is you’re thinking about because lead magnets are important to build your list at the very beginning, you know, with these big names that have hundreds of thousands of people, you could say, hey, get on my list and people would join. It doesn’t work like that. It just does not work like that anymore. So you have to do something of value. And no, a free coaching strategy session does not work as a lead magnet.
Joyce Layman (00:12:10) – The odds that somebody is going to sign up for that is slim to none. So if you have that out on social media, get rid of it and create a juicy lead magnet that somebody is willing to sign up for, and it can’t be something they’re going to Google or go to YouTube and find it has to be your spin, your unique source. It has to be that insight that helps them solve a problem, their first problem. By the way, a lot of times what you know, their problem is, is not what they think their problem is. So you’ve got to do you’ve got to figure out what lead magnet is actually going to attract them, that they’re going to say yes, I’m going to give you my email for, but you’ve got to give them a quick win. And then going back to your comment about email, then have that email nurturing series that you continue to drip content of value, but yet you’re also making offers, not salesy weirdo offers, but saying, hey, you know, if you want another way to work with me, or here’s this, and then your lead magnet should lead into your offer.
Joyce Layman (00:13:10) – Like what is your service? Do you have an online course? Do you have a group coaching program? It should be part of that. That is a natural next step. It also helps them identify a gap because they’re like, oh, that’s great, but crap, I don’t know how to do this or I need help doing that. So your lead magnet should serve all of those things, if that makes sense. Totally. So yeah.
Jillian Leslie (00:13:32) – Specifics. What lead magnets do you see that you go, whoa, that’s a good lead magnet.
Joyce Layman (00:13:41) – There’s, well, just participated in a summit. So I got to see a lot of different people’s offers. Now, one of them, which I thought she did a quiz. I love quizzes, by the way. I use Interact Quiz Builder. To me, that is not a great lead magnet for the summit because everybody else was was giving something that was much juicier for lack of a better term. In that case, sometimes like a quick checklist. You need to do more.
Joyce Layman (00:14:11) – You need to give more. My lead magnets don’t know about you, Gillian, but mine tend to be anywhere from 5 to 9 pages. But you want to take somebody through a process. You want to give them a chance to answer questions, but give them enough information along the way. I’m trying to think of one that I saw, that it was like it was just because we all see lead magnets. We all want to download and see what’s there. And I’m like, is this great or is it not great? I’m just trying to think of one that came to mind. But the summit Lego said the quiz. I love quizzes because they’re a great way that you get people to select, and then if you’ve got it set up right on the back end, then you know it’s that it helps them identify who they are. So it’s more targeted information with what they get. There was one she was more I think it was the four. Personality sales types, and it was around gamification. That to me was fascinating because I’ve used heard the terms gamification before because I used to do it when I was doing training.
Joyce Layman (00:15:13) – It’s like, how do you keep people engaged that they want to stay? You know, if you’re doing a two day training or a full day, it’s like, how do you keep people engaged? So to me, that was interesting and how the personality types worked with that.
Jillian Leslie (00:15:25) – We have a.
Joyce Layman (00:15:25) – Quiz.
Jillian Leslie (00:15:26) – That we offer. And by the way, because I’m all about simplicity, it is a, I think a 2 or 3 page PDF. It is not a quiz program. I hate those so because because then it’s like I know its end. I have to give my email. So what we did was we said, based on your personality, take this quiz and it will tell you what kind of digital product to start with, whether it be ultimately at the end, you are a workshop warrior or you are a coaching, you are a what are they coaching commando, I think, or a digital download dominator. And literally it is just based on your personal and their cute fun questions like what kind of ice cream flavor are you? And the second page though talks about now you go, okay, I know what kind of digital product I should start with.
Jillian Leslie (00:16:26) – And the second page goes, now, can you create a digital product idea that fits into one of what I call the six buying triggers? So could this product make somebody money or save somebody money or save time or so as you’re starting to go, oh, I could do coaching. What should it be about? Here are some buckets to think about when I create my offer, because this turns it from a nice to have to a must have. I will take out my credit card and pay and that’s it. And by the way, we’ve had tremendous success with this. So do I get all this data of who all the people are and what they’re clicking on? No. But am I okay with that? Absolutely. Because I can’t tell you how many people then reach out to me and go, oh my God, I’m like a digital product dominator. What do you think of this idea? And I’m like, let’s start a conversation about it, because I sell a tool that can help you become that digital digital download dominator.
Jillian Leslie (00:17:24) – So it’s much more it’s total down and dirty. It’s cute, is total down and dirty. It has no complicated tech. It is like I think a 2 or 3 page PDF. If you want to get it go to military.com/quiz like simple simple simple and see what we did and copy it.
Joyce Layman (00:17:43) – That’s awesome. So let’s say the quiz that I have on interact, it’s all done for you. So it’s literally set up. The way it’s taken is depending on their answers, it gives them a different response at the end. So one way or another, you’ve got to give your email if you want a lead magnet or a quiz, right. No matter what.
Jillian Leslie (00:18:01) – Exactly.
Joyce Layman (00:18:02) – So exactly I just with the quiz online, it’s an easy way to put it out where I can get it out in multiple places. But that has not been my most popular lead magnet, which is interesting, right?
Jillian Leslie (00:18:14) – Yeah. So which so yours are more dense, more e-book like.
Joyce Layman (00:18:19) – Little. Yes. What about saying like the lead magnet? The ultimate lead magnet formula gives you 30 different ideas of lead magnets, takes you through how to determine what your topic is going to be, gives you idea titles.
Joyce Layman (00:18:31) – It gives you a link to a Canva template to actually create it. And then in the email follow up series, it’s like it builds and builds and builds on top of that. So and then also it goes back to as you’re thinking about it. Then when you create a lead magnet, it should lead into something. So it should have a direct correlation to one of your offers. Well, my ultimate my freebie. Ultimately, magnet formula leads into my lead magnet accelerator kit, which is how to create a lead magnet using I in record time. So it’s all your copy, landing page, copy, email series, the whole nine yards. But AI is something that I use within my courses. So it’s like if you are creating content monthly, then this is how you batch and repurpose content using AI. So there is that if you think about it, you come in with the ultimate formula, but then it takes you to AI based. So as you’re thinking about is your listeners are thinking about their lead magnet, it’s got to be something that has a natural connection to what you do.
Jillian Leslie (00:19:32) – Yeah.
Joyce Layman (00:19:32) – They have a natural connection. This is a.
Jillian Leslie (00:19:34) – Theme that comes up a lot. One of, I think, the trickiest parts of figuring out all of the stuff that you’ve been talking about, like, who are you? Who do you serve? What is your value? Having consistency. Then it becomes, okay, I serve these people and I solve this problem for them. And how do I break that problem up into a variety of steps from my customer’s point of view, not mine. Because just like you said, I might be using certain words to define what their problem is and they might not see it like that at all. Therefore, it’s getting on calls with people hearing the words that they’re saying to describe this. It’s all about iterating, but the work. The hardest part, I think, is stepping back and really seeing your business with a ton of clarity, where you can track how you can help somebody solve a problem with multiple steps. And each one of those steps can be a lead magnet at the beginning, a low ticket offer at, say, toward the beginning of their journey, leading into a more expensive offer, leading into an even more expensive offer.
Jillian Leslie (00:20:54) – Depending upon what the problem is and where the where the solutions are and how you need to give your customers concrete wins.
Joyce Layman (00:21:05) – Oh yes, and it’s important every step of the way. Because even if, say, for example, you’ve got a mini course that you’ve created, if there is not and I just put together a brand new roadmap, which I’m really excited about, and I’m going to be using it for every offer that I have, because if somebody goes, here’s the roadmap, oh, I did this. Here’s the next step. I’ve got a win. Here’s the next step, by the way. It’s the dopamine response in your brain. And that’s what gives you that feel good chemical that makes you want to do more. So but it’s breaking it down even if it’s here’s a lead magnet. Get them a quick win micro course. You know these are the quick wins. So they know they’ve actually accomplished something. Especially if they’re in overwhelm of I don’t know where to start. I’m afraid of tech.
Joyce Layman (00:21:51) – You know I, I got your I got your visibility playbook. But I’m terrified of putting myself out there. So it’s even that mindset component. So it’s figuring out what those things are that you can give them the quick win, but they have to see they’re making progress or else they’re going to give up.
Jillian Leslie (00:22:08) – I agree. And because this is always my theme, the simpler the better. Watch your terms that you like. For example, as I was sharing that like, oh, you could be a digital product, a digital download dominator. Like I don’t usually talk like that, but we decided that that would be a fun thing to add to our quiz. But I made sure that at least you could kind of understand it. It’s not like my terms that don’t make quite sense to you. We talked about this before I pressed record that everybody has these complicated solutions in their brains, and I always say, oh my God, like, cut it down by 90%, start there. Or one thing that I’ve been talking a lot about, I’m going to do a workshop on is like how to how to do a paid workshop, a one hour paid workshop easily.
Jillian Leslie (00:23:01) – And when I talk to people about what they’re creating for a paid workshop, I’m like, let’s do like an hour teaching session on zoom. The amount of information that they want to jam into that hour, I’m like, no, take a red pen, exit all out. You are teaching something so small and so concrete that it’s it’s that it makes sense to the person attending your workshop. It doesn’t. You don’t need to prove to me how smart you are and how much you know. You look at it from my perspective. The customer, the attendee. I don’t know anything about this. Get me to a win. Get me to a small win and speak in English and make it easy for me.
Joyce Layman (00:23:43) – And don’t spend five minutes introducing yourself at the beginning because people could care less. It’s like you’ve got to die. As one who did keynotes and trainings forever to sit through some people’s programs, it’s like, oh dear God. So that’s why. And you talk about 100 words per minute. And it’s one of those things of the amount of slides that you use, the amount of interaction that you have, it should be a dialogue or it don’t make it a monologue, it should be a dialogue.
Joyce Layman (00:24:10) – So there’s lots of things that you need to do to interact with your audience. It’s the same. Yeah. And it’s the same thing. Anyway, I think that’s great because a lot of people know that they have expertise to share. They’re just not quite sure how to put it out there.
Jillian Leslie (00:24:24) – I love that. All right. Yeah. So so tell me, Joyce, if people I mean, you’ve given me so many like cool things that I’ve not talked about in terms of just even like jiffy and how to use up. Your business. Tell me if people want to learn more about you, get some of your freebies and figure out like how they can create opt ins and that kind of thing. Where should they go?
Joyce Layman (00:24:54) – Easiest thing is go look up Joyce Lehman. Man, I am Joyce Lehman on every social channel. I am Joyce Lehman on my website. My YouTube is Joyce Lehman. You are going to find me everywhere. So hint, hint. If you don’t have your name as a domain name, you should get it.
Joyce Layman (00:25:12) – Don’t worry about your business. You want your name, but that’s the easiest way that you can find me. And if you send me a connection, like if you connect with me on Instagram, send me a message and say, hey, I listen to you on the podcast and that would be great because I’m also, I always try to go on and follow people who are following me. But I would love to know that you heard us on the podcast. And what was your biggest takeaway? That would be something else.
Jillian Leslie (00:25:38) – Love that. Well, I just have to say I’ve learned a lot and I really appreciate you coming on the show. So thank you so much for sharing all of your knowledge.
Joyce Layman (00:25:48) – I just appreciate when I got your invite. I was so excited about it. So. Yeah.
Jillian Leslie (00:26:01) – I hope you guys like this episode. For me, my biggest takeaway was when Joyce explained the difference between recency platforms and relevancy platforms with that evergreen content. I thought that was interesting. It gets me thinking about my own business, and I liked how we were able to lay out how all the pieces of your business can fit together so that you can start monetizing.
Jillian Leslie (00:26:28) – And this is why I want to say, if you are ready to start selling digital products for Black Friday and the holidays, this is your moment. Go to Milo tree.com, sign up for Military Cart. Get it for a one time fee of three, 49 or 3 payments on it forever 30 day money back guarantee. Plus you get to get on a call with me where I will help you come up with your Black Friday strategy. There is money to be made right now. Again, go to Milo tree.com and sign up, and I look forward to helping you tap into a whole new income stream. You got questions? Email me at Jillian at Milo Tree and I will see you here again next week. If you’re ready to start selling easy digital products like ebooks and guides and checklists, templates, presets and workshops and memberships coaching courses get on a call with me and we can talk about strategy. I can hear what you’re thinking. I can give you feedback. I can tell you about my library card.
Jillian Leslie (00:28:51) – To get on a 20 minute call with me. Had to Milo tree.com/meet. I would love to meet you and I would love to light a little fire under your butt and get you selling again. Head to Milo tree.com/meet. I’m not scary. I might actually just get you to tap into a whole new income stream, and I will see you here again next week.