Did you know you could build a better blog by niching down?
Today, on the Blogger Genius Podcast, I’m interviewing Kate Shungu, from the blog Gift of Hospitality.
It took Kate a couple of tries to find her niche but once she did, she was able to explode her growth.
Kate ultimately pivoted her food blog to: “vintage recipes for the modern cook.” Having such a good niche gave Kate directions.
And what she’s found is the constraints of not being able to write about everything has helped her. And as a busy mom, not having to do everything, has made her blogging life easier.
If you are wondering whether niching down can help you achieve your blogging goals, this episode is a must!
Table of Contents
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- Gift of Hospitality
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Welcome to the Blogger Genius Podcast brought to you by MiloTree. Here’s your host, Jillian Leslie.
Jillian Leslie 0:11
Hello my friends. Welcome back to the Blogger Genius Podcast. I am your host, Jillian Leslie, I am so happy you are here. I’m a blogger and internet entrepreneur, I build businesses with my husband.
We started with Catch My Party moved on to our MiloTree pop-up app. And now we are launching MiloTreeCart. The easiest way for female bloggers to sell digital products to their audiences. If you are one of those bloggers or creators who says tech is not my thing MiloTreeCart is your best friend.
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For today’s show I have Kate Shungu on the podcast. And she is the blogger behind Gift of Hospitality. What is super interesting about this episode is Kate decided to do that thing that we talked about where you niche down. And she picked a niche that blew up for her during the pandemic. So, she had to pivot again.
And what she discovered was having constraints was helpful. And if you are thinking about niching down, you definitely want to listen to this episode. And if you are in a niche, you might see it in a new way. So, without further delay, here is my interview with Kate Shungu.
Kate, welcome to the Blogger Genius podcast.
Bui>Build a Better Blog By Niching Down
Kate Shungu 2:19
Thank you so much for having me.
Jillian Leslie 2:21
We just recorded this, and I forgot to press record. So, this is our second version. But it was so good, that I’m excited to talk to you some more.
Kate Shungu 2:30
Jillian Leslie 2:31
You reached out to me. And you had an interesting story to tell about blogging. And it has to do with being a food blogger and picking your niche and the pandemic. So, would you share that story of how you got into it and where you are now?
Kate Shungu 2:50
Yes. I started in 2017 under my name kateshungu.com. And I was blogging, whatever I wanted to blog about, I was doing family recipes, I was doing things that interested me or that I had created. And I really didn’t have a focus. So, it was even back then.
Try>Trying to Pick a Niche as a Food Blogger
This would have been 2018 where there were some rumblings in the food blogger community about how big the community is and how you really need to pick a focus. And so I thought, okay, no one knows who Kate Shungu is, by the way. And so, I should find a focus and I’m going to change my domain.
So, I ended up choosing Gift of Hospitality. So, hospitality has always been important to me. I love having people to my home for dinner, I love just being welcoming, and can be something as easy as showing the new person at work where the coffee machine is. And so, I love being that person.
And so, I named it Gift of Hospitality and decided to focus on both recipes for dinner parties. So, things like here is an entree and two sides you can make that we create a dinner party. And then also tips for hospitality, such as how to host in a small space or how to host a dinner party on a budget.
And so, I did that for several years before realizing that I wasn’t really getting anywhere. I decided I wanted to rebrand. I was going to choose to make a pivot and I landed on Gift of Hospitality recipes for entertaining. That was March of 2020. I was all set with this rebrand and what happened in March 2020. No, one.
Jillian Leslie 4:39
And for us at Catch My Party our traffic within a couple of days dropped about 60% and we freaked out. So, I completely understand.
Bei>Being Forced to Pivot as a Food Blogger
Kate Shungu 4:53
Yes, from a brand that had been built already too. I had just started one and you had one that was established and so it was a really uncertain time no one knew where we were going to be entertaining or throwing parties in two weeks. They all said we would or would it be much longer?
Jillian Leslie 5:07
And just that vibe, again, that people were dangerous. It wasn’t even just like, “Oh, we’ll just stay home.” It was like, we will not see people we will not celebrate with people it was like this. The vibe just changed. You would seem like a bad person, if you were thinking about throwing a party.
Kate Shungu 5:29
I had an infant at the time. And we would go for walks on the sidewalk, and people would stop and get in the grass so we could pass. First of all, it’s very kind of you. But now that we know, probably unnecessary. We didn’t know it was so uncertain.
And so, I knew that my tagline should not be recipes for entertaining. So, I got to thinking and over Christmas of that past year, my grandmother’s Rum Balls had done really well.
And I think it was on Pinterest. It wasn’t even on Google. But her recipes literally thousands of people had made grandma’s Rum Balls for Christmas. And I know how tickled she would have been.
And so, it got me looking at her black recipe binder that my grandpa had given me when she passed and there was a lot of recipes in there. Grandma had things in there that she had served to our family for years that she had brought to potlucks to her bridge club. These were grandma’s treasured recipes.
And I also got a hold of her old church cookbooks. And these were also recipes that women, some men, mostly women had contributed over the years. And when they put out a call, let’s say at a church or junior league for these recipes to go into these cookbooks. These people are submitting really their best recipes.
Fin>Finding a Niche as Vintage Recipes for Modern Cooks
These are the ones that they are proud of that they want the world to know like, “Oh, Nancy makes some really good lemon squares.” And so, these cookbooks are a treasure trove of recipes. So, I decided to pivot. And I was going to focus on vintage recipes. So, my tagline is “Vintage Recipes for Modern Cooks”.
I started out and about 20,000 sessions at that point. And then since focusing on that niche, I have quadrupled my sessions, and it was about eight months later after determining that focus that I qualified for Mediavine.
Jillian Leslie 7:23
And so, these are recipes when I think of vintage recipes. I’m thinking of these like Jell-o concoctions. I’m thinking about a lot of Crisco. Are these the kind of recipes you’re making?
Kate Shungu 7:36
Yes. And people are looking for them. They have that nostalgic feel. It’s something their aunt made their mommy their grandma made growing up. They want to put it on their Thanksgiving table, their holiday table, they want their grandkids to taste it.
Hav>Having a Very Strong Avatar and Writing for Her
So, my target audience I’m determined is a woman I call her Judy. I actually have several followers named Judy, who commented and ask me questions who posted so I really have kind of a face to a name for this person. And she is age 50-plus, she is an empty nester. She is looking for an amazing recipe for her book club.
She is looking for a recipe maybe that her aunt used to make and she hasn’t had in years, she’s looking for a recipe for her holiday table. But she is looking for a hint of nostalgia in these recipes.
And so, back to your original question, people are looking for these recipes. And I do adapt them there’s a lot of Crisco, or brand names like Dream Whip and things that are hard to find, or you can’t even find anymore.
And so, I need to update them. And I do do that. And that is what people are looking for. They want a taste of nostalgia, or at least my audience does with their cooking.
Jillian Leslie 8:53
Where are these people finding your recipes?
Kate Shungu 8:58
So, they find them through Google searches or through Pinterest are my two largest sources of traffic.
Jillian Leslie 9:08
And though I’m assuming these 50-plus women are mostly on Facebook, I take it, they’re not on TikTok.
Kate Shungu 9:16
Yes, correct. So, I have determined that Judy, for example, she browses Facebook several times a day. She is on Pinterest; she goes there for inspiration. She does not have a TikTok account. She might be on Instagram because her kids are on Instagram, but maybe not. That’s not where she focuses a lot of her time.
She is really into the more I guess, yearbook nature of Facebook, versus the aesthetic nature of Instagram. And so, I’ve been able to narrow my focus and say, “Okay, I’m not going to make a TikTok account.” I do have one but it’s not something I focused on.
I’m not going to focus on Instagram more than putting one reel on there a week, I’m going to put all of my eggs into Pinterest and Facebook as a means of finding my audience and growing my audience.
Jillian Leslie 10:08
And to people on Facebook. Does Judy talk to you?
The>The Importance of Talking to Your Audience
Kate Shungu 10:13
She does. She asked questions. She comments she says I’m making this for dinner. She wonders where she can find Andouille Sausage in her local grocery store. But she has questions and she comments and she Facebook messages me too.
Jillian Leslie 10:31
Wow. What I love about this is a lot of food bloggers I’ve talked with find it’s difficult to actually be in relationship with the people who are finding their recipes.
Somebody goes to Google and they search for something and a recipe comes up. And they might use it might not, but they’re not necessarily connecting with the food blogger behind it.
When they come up with another idea of a recipe, they’re just Googling it or going to Pinterest, which again, is a visual search engine, and they are missing out on that connection, they miss that. It feels almost like they’re yelling into an abyss.
So, that is so neat because you know your niche, because you know your avatar, your avatar feels close enough to talk to you. You’re not making just like apple pie, or some vegan pizza or something like that. You’ve got this story behind what you are putting out into the world.
Kate Shungu 11:33
And it’s really a small percentage of my audience that does do that. But I’m able to glean information from them as to what the rest of my audience is like.
For example, even if you click on the people who have liked your Facebook post, for example, and just look at their profile picture, you can get an idea of who your audience is.
Mine happens to be mostly female, ages 50-plus, but in a non-creepy way, you’re able to just look at the photo and say like, Okay, this is about the age range of this person. And this is maybe a few things about them.
Jillian Leslie 12:03
Have you thought about niching down and just doing vintage desserts?
Kate Shungu 12:11
Maybe for a second recipe blog, I would do that. But I found that there’s a breadth of recipes that I am able to include in the site. And I find that people when they come to this site are looking at a lot of times all of the recipes, they’re browsing.
And so, I think it’s inspiring some nostalgia in them to say like, “Oh, my aunt made that. One year growing up, I had that, or oh, I haven’t seen that recipe before. My neighbor made that growing up, I had that at a potluck before.” They’re able to get some nostalgia from just browsing recipes on the site.
Jillian Leslie 12:51
Do people ask for certain recipes?
Fig>Figuring Out What Content Your Readers Want from You
Kate Shungu 12:54
They do. So, in my search bar, I’m able through Google Analytics to find what people are searching for. And so, for example, I have a number of searches for Spritz Cookies. And the fact that I’ve never put a Spritz Cookie recipe on the site. And I don’t have a Spritz Cookie pin on Pinterest.
I don’t know how people have the idea that I would have a Spritz Cookie on the site other than a Spritz Cookie is an old fashioned recipe. And they have equated my blog with old fashioned recipe. So, they think oh, she must have a Spritz Cookie and I don’t.
Jillian Leslie 13:30
You’re going to make one.
Kate Shungu 13:31
I am, it is on my list for the coming months to make a Spritz Cookie, and to satisfy these inquiries, but at the moment, I don’t. And so, it’s just a really interesting way to hear more about what your audience is looking for by checking into what they are searching for on your site.
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And now back to the show.
Jillian Leslie 14:39
What I think is so interesting about what you’re sharing is that by being in a niche and knowing exactly what it is, you’re able to limit work.
Kate Shungu 14:52
Yes, that’s exactly it. So, when I’m making decisions based on the blog, I’m thinking about Judy, because ultimately, she’s my audience and she is who I’m serving. And so, both when it comes to choosing blog posts or choosing, for example, keywords.
Why>Why Constraints Are Good for Bloggers
When I’m searching for keywords and I come across a really good one, let’s say, as an example, Instant Pot green beans, and it looks like a really promising keyword, I could rank for that. But I think an Instant Pot is a relatively new thing. At least the brand is. Pressure cooking has been around for a long time.
But Judy is not coming to my site for Instant Pot green beans. She’s coming for a vintage recipe. And so I’m able to quickly say, no, thank you. I don’t need to do that one. And I can make a quick decision based on the fact that okay, I’m focused on vintage recipes.
And the same like I spoke about with social media. I can say, I don’t need to be on TikTok. I don’t need to feel bad for not being on TikTok. Because my audience is not on TikTok. They’re on Facebook and Pinterest. And I can spend my time there. And know, I’m wisely investing my time.
Jillian Leslie 15:57
I think that’s so powerful. It’s by limiting choice, you have more freedom.
Kate Shungu 16:04
Jillian Leslie 16:05
So, here’s a question. Do you take this vintage theme and weave it throughout your blog? For example, I just went live with a podcast episode all about personal branding. And it’s kind of like, how do you find what makes you unique?
And I’m just thinking in terms of, it sounds like you have this library of old cookbooks and old recipes. And I don’t know if you have vintage napkins, but how do you communicate vintage? Because that feels like such a powerful branding opportunity. How do you incorporate that into what you’re doing?
Wea>Weaving Your Niche Into Every Blog Post
Kate Shungu 16:42
In each blog post, I put the source of the recipe where I got that inspiration from. And so, a lot of times it’s an old church cookbook or my grandmother’s typewritten recipes. So, I’ll include a photograph of Grandma’s handwriting or grandma’s typewritten recipe, or I’m able to date these church cookbooks, a lot of times they have calendars in them.
And I’m able to say like, “Okay, this recipe comes from a 1971 church cookbook, it was submitted by a woman named Linda in Illinois.” And so, just the fact that you have that tidbit of information about this recipe, and to know that this recipe has been on Linda’s table.
Whether it’s for a holiday gathering, or she brought it to a potluck, or it’s her prize winning chili recipe, whatever it is, this recipe has some nostalgia to it, and it’s been made for years for generations even.
Jillian Leslie 17:33
Wow. Let’s talk about then your business and you have two little kids.
Kate Shungu 17:37
Jillian Leslie 17:39
So, it’s not like you have infinite time?
Kate Shungu 17:41
I do not.
Jillian Leslie 17:43
So, let’s talk about the ways in which you monetize your business.
Kate Shungu 17:49
I have chosen to focus really on SEO and Pinterest as my biggest avenues for monetization. So, Mediavine is one. And then second is Pinterest. So, as a result of deciding to really focus on Pinterest, I was an early adopter of their Idea Pins.
Mon>Monetizing with the Pinterest Creator Program
And as a result, I was invited to be part of their creator fund when it started creator rewards is what they call them. And so, they have different challenges each month or different rewards each month where they say, we will pay you X dollars if your pin gets 100 saves, or we will pay you X dollars if you post four pins, one each week for one month.
And so, each month they come up with new rewards. And if you post Idea Pins and they meet the requirements, then you get paid for them. So, that’s my other avenue of monetization. And then the third is I do some freelance work doing recipe development and photography for a large national food site.
Jillian Leslie 18:51
And is the Pinterest creator program lucrative?
Kate Shungu 18:56
It is. It was more lucrative at the beginning. I think the pot was large and they had fewer creators who had access to it. And so, they were generous at the beginning. It’s dwindled down a little. I would say it still generates a nice monthly income.
Jillian Leslie 19:16
Can I just ask is it four figures? Is it three figures? Is it five figures?
Kate Shungu 19:23
It’s four figures like several thousand a month that commutes but it depends. So, if I don’t take it seriously, and I dropped one pin in I make $200. But if I make it 12 or 15 pins and meet all the rewards, I might make much more.
And so, as the months have gone on, they’ve opened it up to more creators, and the amount of money that you can get each month has gone down. So, we’ll see how long it lasts. I’m not sure how long it’s going to go. They’ve promised it through the end of the year. We’ll see.
Jillian Leslie 19:58
Now let’s talk in terms of have other things like, do you send a newsletter?
Kate Shungu 20:04
I do intermittently. It is one of those things where I’ve determined based on the number of people on my list, and the amount of clicks that I get I’m currently struggling through, is it worth my time? If I get 100 clicks, and that’s only really made me a few dollars on the site, is that worth it? Is it worth my time?
Because I’ve spent more than six minutes or however, I want to value my time making the email. And so, I’m struggling through that versus forward thinking, is it good for my brand to really have a presence there, I don’t know. It’s something I continually think about and do and don’t do and go back and forth.
Why>Why You Should Be Sending Emails to Your List
Jillian Leslie 20:52
One thing you could do is send an RSS feed, as soon as you publish a blog post, it just sends an email, it’s not as personal. But it does get your recipes out there, especially if you’re paying for an email service provider because they can get expensive. And it is a question of, you’ve got a stale list, you’re not talking to them. It’s not as valuable.
However, if ultimately, at some point, you want to be selling products and services, which, of course, I recommend, considering that we just built MiloTreeCart just for that reason for creators to do that. That’s like the best avenue for selling. So, there are a lot of pluses and a lot of minuses.
Kate Shungu 21:36
Yes, exactly. And so, it’s one of those things you should do, but it’s a matter of doing it. One area where I struggle.
Jillian Leslie 21:45
So, let’s talk about how you manage your time because you have two little kids, and you had said that you wanted to be home with them. How long does it take you to put together a blog post? And how many blog posts are you posting?
Kate Shungu 21:58
I post one blog post per week roughly. And then I update two or three each week. It probably takes three to four hours from recipe conception. Granted, I’m starting with a pretty solid recipe. And these are people’s kind of best recipes.
They do take some tweaking, whether the cook time is sometimes wrong, or it’s ingredients that need changing. I do that, make the recipe, photograph it, write the blog post, and then promote it from start to finish. It’s probably closer to four hours.
I found I’m fitting this into the margins of my day, it’s during naptime for the kids, it’s after they go to bed, it is when my husband gets home, and that expression. The work expands, the amount of time you have is never more true than when you have either a lot of time or very little time.
It’s just it has to get done. And it gets done. And I’m able to focus more when I just have that limited amount of time.
Jillian Leslie 23:02
Don’t you think to yourself, what did I do with all my time before I had kids?
Kate Shungu 23:02
All the time.
Jillian Leslie 23:02
I think it too, oh my God. I think having children just changes your whole concept of time. And I love this idea that you know what, with a deadline, you can get stuff done. I always talk about B- work, which is doable, but it’s above average.
I’m not saying phone it in and do crappy work or even do average work. But at a certain point, you’ve taken enough photos.
Kate Shungu 23:33
Exactly. That’s a huge one I used to get stuck and take 100 photos of whatever I was making, before realizing I’m only using six of these eight of these tops and opposed in other ways that I promote it. What am I taking all these photos for?
I don’t need six different angles of this dish. Let’s stick to two or three, tried and true angles. Get it done. I don’t need to repeat this. I don’t need to do all these little tweaks to get the perfect photo. Just get it out there. And it saved me so much time.
Jillian Leslie 24:06
Are you doing video?
Kate Shungu 24:08
I do video on my phone in order to recreate a reel book for Pinterest and I’m able to repurpose it on Instagram.
Jillian Leslie 24:15
And then are you putting it on YouTube or YouTube Shorts?
Kate Shungu 24:15
I’m not. I’m not currently. I would like to do this but it currently does not fit into my schedule of the things that I need to get done.
Jillian Leslie 24:30
So, it could be on your roadmap, six months down the road, two years down the road, that kind of thing. I love that. You know, it’s funny. I feel why I like this conversation is that sometimes constraints are your friends.
Kate Shungu 24:49
Yes, it’s true, whether it’s time or the niche that you’ve chosen. I’m able to say no to things more quickly that could potentially waste my time and I’m able to say yes to the things that really matter for the growth of my business.
Jillian Leslie 25:05
And I think it does relate to parenting, it’s like limiting the choices you give your kids, go play out in the yard, and do whatever you want, like go crazy, but like the limit is not the neighborhood, we’re going to kind of give you some boundaries.
And then within those boundaries, for you, it’s vintage cooking, well, you could do a lot with vintage cooking, but you’re not going to use an air fryer.
Kate Shungu 25:33
Exactly. I’m not going to do air fryer recipes, Instant Pot recipes.
Jillian Leslie 25:36
Kate Shungu 25:38
Vegan, dairy free, gluten free, copycat recipes even, I’ve already decided even though that keyword looks really enticing, that I’m not going to choose that. And I’m going to focus on something that my reader is looking for.
Jillian Leslie 25:51
And so, this even comes to budgeting, they talk a lot about this, like companies, new startups will raise so much money, and so much of that money then goes to waste. Whereas when you’ve got a tight budget, it’s amazing. You can be scrappy, and what you can get done.
Kate Shungu 26:11
Exactly, because then you’re wasting time wishing you had more time.
Jillian Leslie 26:14
So, when you look into the future, and you think about your business, and you think six months, a year out two years out, how do you see it growing or evolving?
Kate Shungu 26:24
As with anything, you want the curve to go up, we want that line to go up, as we see when we look at all of our data, it goes up and down. And it’s just one of those things. And so, my goal is really, to continue to grow while maintaining the balance that I have.
And that balance right now is to stay home with my kids. And yes, we do have a babysitter once a week, twice a week, sometimes for me to be able to get bigger stuff done. But my goal for starting this blog was to stay home with my kids.
So, that’s what I want to do, while still providing, like a supplemental income for our family. We are really to be able to provide what it’s turned into is like a full time income on part time hours.
Jillian Leslie 27:14
That is terrific. That is terrific. And eventually, because as I’ve shared, eventually you can be selling your eBook or your guide or your course or whatever. Because as bloggers grow, it’s typically by selling products and services that they are really able to get that big growth. But in time.
Kate Shungu 27:40
Exactly. I keep getting told it gets easier once they go to school.
Jillian Leslie 27:43
Kate Shungu 27:43
I don’t know if that’s true.
Jillian Leslie 27:44
It does. At least you get certain chunks of time that are yours. There are other issues, but it does. With parenting, you go in phases, and you will see that it changes and it evolves just like how your kids are constantly changing. There are these different seasons. That’s what I would say.
You are in a pretty intense season. So, the fact that you’re able to grow this blog is very impressive.
Kate Shungu 28:15
Thank you. It’s something that I’m passionate about. And it’s funny because the Latin root word for passion, it means to suffer. And so, all of us, as bloggers have really suffered for our business because we’re passionate about it, whether it’s our health has suffered, or our mental health or maybe relationships.
We’d had certain points had to choose the blog or our work over other things, as a result, something has to stop or something has to give. And so, it’s really a gift to be able to work at something that you’re passionate about on the flip side. And so really balancing those two things.
And my whole goal is to figure out how to suffer less. And that is how I’ve been able to be successful within niching down is that I don’t have to waste time wondering if I would do well on TikTok because I’ve decided not doing that or wondering if I had a whole section on my blog for Instant Pot recipes.
The competition there seems pretty low according to these keyword research sites maybe there’s some opportunity there but I don’t have time to worry about that. And I’m choosing not to.
Jillian Leslie 29:36
Oh, I love that. Kate, if people want to reach out to you see what you’re doing contact you, have questions where should they go?
Kate Shungu 29:46
They can find me at giftofhospitality.com. You can also find me at firstname.lastname@example.org is my email and then the handle is the same on all the social media platforms @giftofhospitality.
Jillian Leslie 29:59
I think that this is a really important message less is more, lean into what you can do and that constraints can be your friend.
Kate Shungu 30:11
It’s so true.
Jillian Leslie 30:12
Thank you. Thank you. This is our second recording; I think it is as good if not better than our first one. I just want to say thank you for that. And really, thank you for coming on the show.
Kate Shungu 30:23
It’s my pleasure.
Jillian Leslie 30:24
I hope you guys liked this episode. What it shows me is as bloggers and online entrepreneurs, we are constantly pivoting in our business, both because the business is changing and our lives are changing. When I think about when we started Catch My Party in 2009, the world looked so different. Plus, my daughter was two.
I’ve gone through evolutions; our businesses have gone through evolution. So, I say lean into it. And one thing to think about as your business continues to evolve is what kinds of products and services could you offer your audience? What are they struggling with? Start there.
And if tech scares you, we have the solution and it is called MiloTreeCart. Now remember, we’re doing something cool for Black Friday, so please get on my email list. Go to bloggergenius.com and you will be the first to know. Also grab my digital product quiz at milotree.com/quiz.
And I will see you here again next week.
Oth>Other Blogger Genius Podcast Episodes You’ll Like:
- Secret Ways to Monetize Your Blog with Corinne Schmitt & Christina Hitchcock
- The Best Blog Content Tools You’ve The Best Blog Content Tools You’ve Never Heard Of with Britt Reber
- Boost Your Blog Traffic by Building Your Authority with Christine Pittman
Imagine a>Imagine a world where growing your social media followers and email list was easy…you are looking for ways to grow your community whether that be email whether that be social media, right now head to Milotree.com install the MiloTree app on your blog and it will do the work for you. Let it do the heavy lifting for you.
Let it pop up in front of your visitors and ask them to follow you on Instagram Pinterest, YouTube, Facebook, join your list, check out the exit intent but really get your community growing. And we’d love to help you with MiloTree. And I will see you here again next week.