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#307: Mastering the Art of Messaging to Unlock Income Growth in 2024

Hello everyone, I’m your host, Jillian, and today I interviewing copywriter, Samantha Burmeister. We’re talking about the importance of effective messaging to set yourself apart from the competition as a blogger in 2024.

The Potential of Digital Products and Services

In the podcast, I also introduce the concept of pivoting to selling digital products and services as a way to boost your blog income. One tool that I highly recommend for this is the MiloTreeCart. This user-friendly tool allows you to set up memberships, digital downloads, workshops, coaching, and mini-courses with ease.

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Show Notes:

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The Importance of Messaging

The main topic of the episode is messaging. Samantha and I discuss the importance of getting visitors and customers to understand the “why” behind the content. This “why” can drive actions such as joining an email list, taking action on blog posts, and making purchases on sales pages.

We also touched on the role of AI in copywriting and the significance of brevity, authority, and selling the transformation. Samantha explains the difference between content and copywriting, stating that content is written for computers and focuses on discovery, while copywriting is about understanding the audience’s needs and desires and crafting compelling messaging to inspire action.

The Power of Offering Value

Samantha stresses the importance of offering valuable content to capture email addresses and generate leads. She emphasized the need to provide immediate value and ensure that the freebie or content offered aligns with the paid products or services being promoted in the future.

She also addressed the hesitation some people, especially women, feel when it comes to selling and promoting their offerings. Samantha encourages them to overcome this mindset and view selling as a way to serve and help others.

The Role of Emotions in Purchasing Decisions

We discussed the role of emotions in purchasing decisions. Samantha confirmed that people often buy based on emotions and then justify their purchase afterwards. I shared an example of buying a purse because it sparked my interest, even though I later justified it by saying I needed it for a wedding or a job interview.

The Use of AI in Copywriting

We also discussed the differences between using AI for content and AI for copy. When using AI for content, it can aggregate information from the internet to answer specific questions or provide recommendations. However, when it comes to copywriting, it’s important to understand the desired transformation or outcome that the audience wants.

I shared my approach to using AI for copywriting. I prompt my AI, ChatGPT, to be a world-class copywriter who understands human psychology. By setting up the AI with this prompt, I can then ask it to generate sales copy that will lead to the desired transformation for my target audience.

Brevity and Authority in Sales Pages

Samantha discussed the importance of brevity and authority in sales pages. She advises against using blocks of text, except for the about section, as people are usually more interested in knowing what they will get from the sales page. However, she acknowledges that the about section can help build authority and humanize the product being sold.

I agree with Samantha’s points and suggest that imposter syndrome can be overcome by putting yourself out there confidently. I emphasize the need to establish trust and authority in the sales pitch, even if you don’t have formal qualifications in the field.


To sum up, the key takeaways from the episode are the need to communicate authority, establish a personal connection, and guide customers on a transformative journey. If you want to learn more about Samantha and her services, she can be found at Nomad Copy Agency and on Instagram at nomad.copy.

I invite you to schedule a free exploratory call with me to discuss your business strategies. Let’s grow our income in 2024 together!

Other related Blogger Genius Podcast episodes you’ll enjoy:

A Word About MiloTreeCart

Before we wrap up, I’d like to mention MiloTreeCart, the platform we built to help bloggers, online entrepreneurs, and coaches to sell digital products. With the holidays coming up, it’s a great opportunity to make money. Sign up for MiloTreeCart with a one-time payment or three payment option. We also offer a 30-day money-back guarantee and the opportunity to have a call with me to develop your 2024 digital product strategy.

Mastering the Art of Messaging to Unlock Income Growth in 2024 | The Blogger Genius Podcast with Jillian Leslie

Transcript: #307: Mastering the Art of Messaging to Unlock Blog Growth in 2024

Jillian Leslie (00:00:00) – Hi, I’m Gillian. Welcome to a brand new episode of the Blogger Genius podcast. But before I launch in, I have a question for you. How are you planning to grow your income in 2024? With competition from AI content and ad revenue potentially declining due to the phase out of third party cookies? My advice? It’s time to pivot by selling your own digital products and services to your audience. And this is where Military Cart comes in. Imagine setting up unlimited memberships, digital downloads, workshops, coaching, and mini courses in less than ten minutes. Milo Tree Cart isn’t just another tech tool, it’s the easiest you’ve ever used with real people behind it. Ready to help? And here’s the best part. For our first thousand, VIP customers were offering mileage regard for a one time lifetime deal of just 349 plus. We’re all about trust, so we offer a 30 day, no questions asked money back guarantee. Ready to explode your income in 2024? Visit Military.com and grab this exclusive offer, and here is a bonus purchase by the end of December, and I will include a lifetime military pop up account worth $250 to help you grow your followers on TikTok, Instagram, Pinterest, Facebook, YouTube, and your email list.

Jillian Leslie (00:01:27) – Pause this episode, head over to Military.com, and become one of our VIPs.

Announcer (00:01:36) – Welcome to the Blogger Genius podcast, brought to you by Milo Tree. Here’s your host, Jillian Leslie.

Jillian Leslie (00:01:43) – Hello everyone, and welcome back to the show. I have a really good episode today. It is all about messaging and as we are getting into 2024, this is what will set you apart from the competition. Today I am interviewing copywriter Samantha Burmeister and she explains why it’s no longer just about creating content for content sake. It is now getting your visitors, your customers to do what you want. And the way you do this is by getting them to understand the why, not just the what. So we talk about how your why gets people to join your email list, how your why gets people to take action in your blog posts. This is also how you convince people to buy on your sales pages. We talk about AI and how that can help you with copywriting, but it can’t do the whole thing. You’ve got to have your plan mapped out for you.

Jillian Leslie (00:02:50) – We talk about the importance of brevity, the importance of leaning into your authority, setting yourself up as an expert. And of course, we talk about selling the transformation. Please steal these strategies. I promise these will help you and your blog get noticed without further delay. Here is my interview with Samantha Burmeister. Samantha, welcome to the Blogger Genius podcast.

Samantha Burmeister (00:03:18) – Thank you so much. I’m happy to be here.

Jillian Leslie (00:03:20) – We had a little conversation just before recording about how I’m a big believer in what you do, because I think the story matters, the messaging matter. So before we launch into that, would you share a little bit about who you are, how you got into copywriting and even what copywriting is?

Samantha Burmeister (00:03:46) – Yes, absolutely. So let me tackle the what copywriting is before I introduce myself, because I think especially when we’re talking to bloggers and creatives, the the difference in the words gets muddied a little bit. So there’s kind of a Venn diagram where content is on one side and copies on the other.

Samantha Burmeister (00:04:05) – And content, I always say is written for computers and copy is written for people. And the reason I say that is that content so often you’re focusing on SEO, you’re focusing on your discoverability, and that’s incredibly important. Copy, on the other hand, when I say is written for people is that it’s. So that people are taking action on what you write. And so of course, there is a Venn diagram, there is some crossover there. But typically we would say content is going to be blogs and podcast descriptions and potentially you’re about me and your.

Jillian Leslie (00:04:41) – Social media posts. Social media posts. Yes.

Samantha Burmeister (00:04:43) – Yep. Social media captions because that’s what’s going to make you searchable. So of course people are reading it and you’re hoping that real people are interacting with it, but it is written for that purpose. So that’s content on that side. Copy on the other side is going to be your sales pages, your product descriptions. Your website is often copy. So it’s encouraging real people to take action, whether that’s to purchase or click here or learn more or something like that.

Samantha Burmeister (00:05:09) – So then, you know, then there’s the middle right where, you know, we’re all kind of in an overlap. But that’s what I would say, especially in this realm of blogging and copy. You know, you might feel a little bit of confusion. And I’ve had people reach out to me to hire me and say, hi, will you write my blog post? So I’m like, no, that’s a content writer, but I know how to write a blog post. And yes, that segways us into where did I come from? So because I did start in blog writing. So I have degrees in marketing, international business, and French. I always knew that I wanted to travel a lot and went into a sales career after college, knowing that sales pay is really well and knowing that it was really freaking uncomfortable. As a woman in sales and especially in tech sales, I was a minority. And also just women are kind of conditioned not to sell too much. And that’s a generalization.

Mastering the Art of Messaging to Unlock Income Growth in 2024 | The Blogger Genius Podcast with Jillian Leslie

Samantha Burmeister (00:06:03) – It’s not true for everyone, but it’s a generalization for a reason. I was in corporate sales for several years before realizing that I wasn’t achieving my travel goals, and decided to go out on my own and reached out to several people in my network. And at the time, I had a travel blog, and it was for working women who wanted to travel more. And I was like, well, I should be walking the walk a little bit more. So I pursued that full time didn’t end up getting it off the ground. I’m a failed blogger, and I’m very comfortable with that, because I learned a lot in those first couple of years of traveling and blogging and became an incredible blog writer. And ultimately what I ended up doing was instead of blogging for myself, I was blogging for other people because that’s where I found the income stream. So I was writing finance blogs primarily and small business blogs, and got burnt out on it and wanted to lean on my sales career a bit more. And so that’s when I started.

Samantha Burmeister (00:07:05) – I married the blogging and the sales career and became a sales copywriter. So that’s happened over the course. Let’s see. I quit my job almost five years ago so that blogging to copywriting transition happened about a year after I left corporate, and I’ve been writing sales copy ever since.

Jillian Leslie (00:07:21) – Now here’s a question. Do you believe that every blog post you write needs to have an element of copywriting in it? Of call to action, of selling, of something? Get on my list, do something because that is something I came to later is a blog post shouldn’t just be a blog post, whether it be I’ve put affiliate links here and you should click those affiliate links or sign up for my list, or buy my product, or go to this sponsor that a blog post should serve two masters. One is giving people the information they’re looking for, but if you aren’t, I’m going to say it. Selling in your blog post. You’re missing out.

Samantha Burmeister (00:08:13) – Yes, I agree 100%. And when you really evaluate why you’re writing a blog post, unless you’re truly writing for fun and do not hope to make any money from your blog ever.

Samantha Burmeister (00:08:25) – And it’s just a personal thing where you get your thoughts out, that’s great. Do you? However. If you’re writing this to be of service to people and you’re not giving them an affiliate link, you’re not telling them how to take the next step. Like, are you really providing value for them, like when you could be providing even more value for them? So if you are a recipe blogger and you’re telling me how incredible this tool is, but you’re not telling me where to buy it, that’s just mean. Tell me where to buy it. Let me give you my money. I want this thing. If you’re telling me how to go visit the California coast and telling me that you really need to be careful, because on the 101, you could go 100 miles and that might take four hours before you hit your next hotel. I want to link to that hotel. Like please give me an affiliate link. Please continue to provide value in that way. That’s not even being salesy. That’s simply being helpful.

Samantha Burmeister (00:09:24) – So I agree with you 100%. Every blog post should give people an opportunity to take action, whether it’s a financial one or not.

Jillian Leslie (00:09:34) – Got it. All right. Let’s talk about then easy call to actions and how you would tee that up in a blog post. Like how do you get people to join your list? How do you get people to click on your affiliate? How do you get people to buy your products? What are some simple strategies that people can take?

Samantha Burmeister (00:09:55) – Yeah. So this is a huge brain switch for people because in blog posts you’re typically telling them what and sales copy is telling them why. So people do not want to join your list. I’ll tell you that right now people do not say, man, I wish I got more emails from Jillian, right? However, they are stoked about that list. If it’s giving them discounts and you know. ET cetera, et cetera. But if you just tell people, join my list and I’ll send you discounts, it’s probably not it.

Samantha Burmeister (00:10:25) – You want to tell them more of the why? Paint them a picture. Tell them the story of what’s going to happen when they join. So instead of saying join the email list, wait wait.

Jillian Leslie (00:10:33) – Wait, I love this people. Go join my email list to get updates on blah blah blah blah. And it’s like, I don’t care about your blog. I don’t know who you are. I stumbled upon this on Pinterest. Like, don’t tell me I need your updates. My life’s busy enough.

Samantha Burmeister (00:10:51) – Exactly. Exactly. It’s. And I mean, respectfully, people don’t care about you. They care about the value that you’re going to give them. And the best way for them to get a flavor of that ongoing value that will come through your newsletter, is for you to give them a ton of value right now. So let’s use that California coast. It’s get the five best beaches on the California coast, or the five best hotels, or five cutest motels, or five easy hikes that are day trips from San Francisco.

Samantha Burmeister (00:11:22) – Right? Like you want to say, download it, I’ll send it to you. And that’s how you’re going to capture their email. It’s not going to say, oh, I’ll send you tips on the California coast in the future. You’re going to tell them how they can get value from you right now. And the next layer to that is also ensuring that that freebie, when you continue to provide value in the future, is leading to the paid thing that you offer. So then you offer safe planning services for Northern California. Like I will plan your dream 101 road trip. That’s going to be the thing that’s paid later on. So this is almost like a lite version of what you’re going to get from them in the future. Now what if, though.

Jillian Leslie (00:12:02) – Can I sell my e-book for $10 in my blog post? Like, again, I feel like you’re more like, well, it has to be this kind of slow burn.

Samantha Burmeister (00:12:13) – It can be a freebie. I think the freebie is an easy, natural entry, but it can be a paid thing too.

Samantha Burmeister (00:12:21) – And that’s a great way to start monetizing your blog as well. Or any of your content is to say yes, download my e-book and you’ll receive this, that and the other and potentially discounts. And you know, make sure you mention the travel blog and you know you’ll get 10% off, which pays for the cost of the e-book you can. There’s so many ways to spin. Anything mean? Small sales. Larger sales. Freebies like anything, anything that inspires action in a blog post. Because like you said, otherwise you’re just doing them a disservice. You’re wasting their time if you’re not going to, if you’re only going to take them one step of the way.

Jillian Leslie (00:13:06) – But don’t you think? Also, let’s say I’m selling something or I’ve got something cool. This is the pattern that I see. Women especially this is on average, I’m speaking in generalities. But women, I’m a woman. We don’t like selling. It feels really weird. So we typically I just was talking to somebody and she’s like, hey, I sent my newsletter out and I was selling my e-book, but I put it at the way bottom of the newsletter because I don’t want to be salesy.

Jillian Leslie (00:13:37) – And I said, oh, no, if you think this is a value, you shout this from the rooftops. You say it at the top, you say it in the middle, you say it at the end, spin it in different ways, but talk about how they will be missing out, that that you have something of value that will make their lives better. You got to grab it now.

Samantha Burmeister (00:13:57) – Yes, 100%. I think people really need to internalize that. If you have something valuable, if you’re sitting on what other people need, if you are, if you have an opportunity to make other people’s lives easier and you’re not sharing it and shouting it from the rooftops, you are doing them a disservice. If you truly think that what you do and what you’re offering has value, and you are not telling people about it. Then you are setting them and yourself back. And when you see it that way, and you choose not to sell to them, and you choose not to offer it to them.

Samantha Burmeister (00:14:36) – That’s mean. That’s mean.

Jillian Leslie (00:14:38) – I don’t do that. I like that that again, as a woman, the idea that you’re being mean is a good way to inspire us because we don’t want to be men, right? We want to be helpful and we don’t. We want to be nice. And so leaning into the fact that selling is a nice thing to do, I think it’s like selling is service is a great flip in the way that you’re thinking about it, so that you can get past that feeling of ickiness. Now, why do you think selling makes us feel icky? I have some theories about it, but what’s your take given that you were in sales?

Samantha Burmeister (00:15:16) – Yeah, yeah, I think that it feels icky because of a few things. One, I think that in general we are taught that assertion is off putting and it’s not. I think that we’re afraid that if we sell that we’re we’re people inherently are afraid of rejection, and we put our hearts and souls into our businesses. And when you put an offer out there, putting a piece of yourself out there, and if people don’t buy it, then you feel like people don’t love you or something.

Samantha Burmeister (00:15:51) – You know, there’s there’s a lot to it that goes into the mindset of selling. And oftentimes if we try to sell once and it doesn’t work, we say, well, then I’m not going to do that ever again. In fact, when somebody they’re terrified that people are going to unsubscribe from their list. And I was like, let them go. Like, these people don’t want what you have, then you don’t need them on your list. Or I used to when my list was really small. Notice it when, like, my cousin would leave my list and it’s like I see now. Like my cousin was a vanity number. She was never going to buy from me. She’s not my target audience. I was just trying to get to 100 people and ask my family to join my list, right? Like so I took that really personally and I see that. But there’s so much that goes into it too, of like, if you stop seeing, when you stop seeing it as rejection and you start seeing it as an opportunity to understand your list and your people more, then that’s going to help you hone your messaging.

Samantha Burmeister (00:16:44) – It’s going to help you create better copy that’s better targeted to your ideal people. So yeah, I hope that answers your question. Yeah.

Jillian Leslie (00:16:53) – Well, one piece of feedback I get a lot. I get on calls with a lot of people, a lot of creators, bloggers, coaches, all of this predominantly women, not all women, but in general. And one thing they say to me is because I’ll say, hey, you know, turn on a new income stream, start selling digital products. It can be really easy. Like you can start with a checklist, you know, digital download, e-book. And they go, mm, I tried it once and it didn’t work. So digital all like this huge, huge kind of group of like it just doesn’t work for me. And I go, did you just try one product? And they go, yes, but they put their heart and soul in it. They whatever. And and they felt the rejection and therefore it doesn’t work for them.

Jillian Leslie (00:17:42) – And I’m all about put it out there, make it rough, test it. See if you get any traction. If not, move on to the next thing. I can’t say this more often to people. It’s not you. It’s that you haven’t found the connection between what you’re offering and what your audience wants to purchase. Let’s get the personal out. This is not a statement about your self worth or that it works for all these other people, but somehow I am unlucky, unlovable, disliked. So it just doesn’t work for me.

Samantha Burmeister (00:18:18) – Um. Yep. Yep, 100%.

Jillian Leslie (00:18:22) – So if you were to think about because you’re like the magic copywriter, tell me words that you go to that you use to get people to take action.

Samantha Burmeister (00:18:33) – You have to make it emotional. We want to believe that. We don’t make emotional decisions and that we’re completely rational and that just doesn’t exist in sales. Every decision is an emotional decision, even if it’s completely. Be practical, right? Like I have my rice and beans to feed my family.

Samantha Burmeister (00:18:53) – It’s still emotional because you care about your family and you’re making a decision based on that, right? So words that I go to, I mean, especially in call to action buttons, are going to be, um. Not saying download now, but it’s going to be like take the first step now, right? Because you’re taking them on a journey. So there’s words that I use over and over are going to be now. But it’s that like how am I tying that now to what they really want. So like planning your dream trip now of like this is the deliverable. That they really want because like I said, nobody wakes up in the morning hoping to get on another email list. Nobody wakes up in the morning hoping to buy another course. They’re not buying your course. They’re not buying your digital product, your checklist or whatever they’re buying what that thing can do for them. So it’s less about the exact words like, I could give you, and you could probably go to my website and download 25 great CTAs, right.

Samantha Burmeister (00:19:53) – But it’s CTAs calls to action. Of course, I could give you those, but it’s really about thinking about the words that stand out to your audience. So we see a lot of take the first step now or plan your trip now or I’m ready to blank. You know, what is what is it that they really want. Because again, they don’t really want your download. They really want the thing that you’re download provides. So then you would say I’m ready for. The trip of my dreams. I’m ready for more recipes. I’m ready for whatever.

Jillian Leslie (00:20:35) – Because the thing that I always hear is sell the transformation. But then I heard something else, which is not the transformation. Sell them their future self. So one is like the purse, like one is, oh, I want to get out of debt. The other is, I want to be a person who doesn’t have debt, who has gotten out of debt like one is that you’ve kind of embodied. You know, one is I want this outcome, but the other is I want to be the person with the outcome.

Jillian Leslie (00:21:10) – Yes. And what are your thoughts about that?

Samantha Burmeister (00:21:12) – I agree completely. There’s a thing in sales psychology called the open loop. Highly recommend googling it and doing some rudimentary research on it for everyone who’s listening. So open loop thinking is exactly what your picture a circle that just doesn’t quite close in one spot. And that open loop is what you create in somebody’s thought process. When you tell them and you insert them into the story. So there’s I mean, while I’m naming resources, the book story brand is incredible for this as well, where it talks about taking someone on a hero’s journey. And so they’re the hero of the story. You are the guide and you are telling them who they can be in their own story. And when we pair that with open loop thinking, it’s we’re creating a story and we’re saying, you know, you can be. So let’s say it’s a fitness blogger, right? You’re telling them that you understand where they are now and you can be a fit person. You can be healthy.

Samantha Burmeister (00:22:17) – You can be this like, this is the path that you are on, but that open loop, what you’re not telling them is that how they’re going to get there. And when they have that open loop. And of course, this comes later in sales pages, you know, you’re not withholding this information. You’re not making false promises. But when you tell them this is who you are now and this is where you can be, they paint the picture themselves, and that lights up the parts of your brain that help you make those emotional decisions. And so when again, they’re the hero of the story and they have the opportunity to fill in that blank, they start to see themselves as aligned with you and what it is that you’re selling. So. All that to say, yes, 100% agree we’re selling the transformation, but the transformation not as it’s happening, but once it has happened and that is their future self. So I think that I think what you said is 100% true. And that’s a little bit of the sales psychology behind why it’s true.

Jillian Leslie (00:23:16) – So it’s like I’m painting the picture of me as a super fit person. And what you’re saying is the piece that I’m missing that will close the loop is your product is going to get me there, so it’s not you. But if I get this one missing piece, then I will not just get in shape, but I will be an in-shape person. So you’re painting this picture of, wouldn’t it feel great to wake up in the morning and feel tons of energy to look at yourself in the mirror and be like, whoa, I rock to put on that new outfit and feel like a million bucks, right? To walk around with so much confidence. Like that’s the picture of who I want to be. The way I get there is by getting in shape. The way that I figured that piece out is buying your product.

Samantha Burmeister (00:24:07) – Yes.

Jillian Leslie (00:24:08) – And is it true? Oh, go ahead.

Samantha Burmeister (00:24:11) – I was going to say, just think of it like the before and after pictures. You don’t ever see them sweating and cooking for themselves and packing a lunch and saying no to the extra Chipotle.

Samantha Burmeister (00:24:22) – Right? Like you don’t see that. You see the before in the after and you paint the picture of like, well, I see myself in literally 50% of this image so I can fill in the blank for the other half. That’s what I want. That’s where I want to be. And then you let their brains say that, okay, all that I’m missing is Sam’s fitness camp.

Jillian Leslie (00:24:45) – I want to take a short break to say if you are ready to start selling digital products and services, but you don’t know where to start, what kind of product to create, take my fun digital product personality quiz. Because it will show you what kind of product to create. First, to grab this, go to military.com/quiz, Military.com slash quiz. And then when you find out your results, email it to me because I would love to help you get started. And now back to the show. Now, is it true that a lot of times we buy on emotion and justify it afterwards?

Samantha Burmeister (00:25:32) – Yes, yes.

Jillian Leslie (00:25:35) – So I’m going to like, I don’t know, see that purse that I, that I like Nordstrom and I’m going to buy it. And then I’m going to go well because I need it for this wedding. I’m going to or I need it because it will look really good in the job interview. But the truth is I just it was pink and I saw it and it sparked my brain and somehow I had to have it.

Samantha Burmeister (00:25:58) – Mhm mhm. Yeah 100%. And you’re going to pay a lot more. Where was I recently. I want to say it was a secondhand store or something. But I saw this like stack of designer bags and they were the bags that were really really popular. Like the designs, you know, ten, 20 years ago, probably not even that long ago, maybe 15 years ago. And I was like, that’s so funny, because when I was in college, I wanted like literally that exact bag. And I was willing to I didn’t buy it. But in theory, at that time, I would have been willing to spend, say, $1,000 on this bag.

Samantha Burmeister (00:26:34) – But when you change the, um, situation, right, it’s now just in a stack of Coach and Dooney and Bourke and Kate Spade and they’re. Probably still in really good shape, and they’re still going to hold your stuff and they’re still designer, but I’m not going to buy it for $1,000 at savers. I’m going to buy it for $1,000 at Nordstrom’s.

Jillian Leslie (00:26:59) – So how do I add this into my copywriting?

Samantha Burmeister (00:27:04) – So this is the part where I tell you that design and technology and all of that are super important as well. And that’s outside of my that part is outside of my realm, but in copy. So and what I mean by that, I’ll kind of take a step back is if you have just HTML like doesn’t even look like a page, it’s ugly. It’s hard to read. It’s all in one long text block is one paragraph. There’s no headers, there’s no formatting, there’s none of that. Nobody’s going to read your copy because it’s ugly. That said, if you invest a ton in design and then your copy doesn’t make any sense, even if it is formatted beautifully, then it’s still not going to sell.

Samantha Burmeister (00:27:47) – So that’s what I mean by that, is that it all has to work together. But when we talk about just copy and how do we emulate that experience in copy, it’s creating a message that’s consistent. I have a program called Copy on Demand. And what that program is, and this isn’t me plugging my program. It’s to give you context is my program is people are in my program and they can submit copy to me weekly, and I will review it and send it back to them and tell them what to change so that they become better copywriters. And then they also don’t have to make the huge investment into a copywriter. It’s about $200 a month. It’s incredibly approachable for business owners. So one of the pages that I was reviewing just last night, somebody had a message at the top of the page that was like, you will become more confident in XYZ. So it was pretty good above the fold. But then when you click like say no more, I’m in. It scrolls you to the bottom of the page where the opt in form was, and the wording around that was like, get the three ways that you can be a better writer.

Samantha Burmeister (00:28:53) – Because funny enough, I work with a lot of writers because there’s a lot of different types of writing. So she’s an author and she helps people write books. And so the promise at the top of the page was different from the promise at the bottom of the page. And I was like, your messaging, yes, you need to start wide and then take people small as they go through the page to help them understand exactly what it is that they’re getting. And you might want to introduce that you are going to send them the three practical tips for writing a better manuscript or whatever it was. But if I just saw the top, clicked the action button, and it took me to the bottom and gave me a separate message that flow isn’t there. Yeah, it.

Jillian Leslie (00:29:31) – Makes your brain kind of go and error. Error like it’s not making sense, right?

Samantha Burmeister (00:29:38) – Exactly. So if we want to give them the Nordstrom experience, right, like you’re still going to hear that same piano whether you’re in men’s formalwear or juniors.

Samantha Burmeister (00:29:46) – Right. You’re still going to have kind of the same the same vibe the same message. You’re still going to get the same of like purchase luxury items to put on your body. That’s that’s that’s the Nordstrom vibe, right? It’s not buc-ee’s where you go in the front door and you smell barbecue, and then you end up in the back and you smell cleaning products and then it’s Christmas. So you’ve got like Christmas stuff over here. Like we want to give a Nordstrom experience, not a Bucky’s experience.

Jillian Leslie (00:30:16) – But Bucky’s is a very consistent experience. It’s just a very different you don’t want to start with Nordstrom end up at Bucky’s.

Samantha Burmeister (00:30:23) – Yes. Exactly. Exactly. Or like. Yeah. Guess a better, better example would be like, you leave Nordstrom’s in the mall and then you end up at like journeys, right? And then you end up at Auntie Anne’s Pretzels, right?

Jillian Leslie (00:30:34) – You know.

Samantha Burmeister (00:30:34) – You want you want to have that consistent Nordstrom experience. All right.

Jillian Leslie (00:30:38) – And focused on you focused on you get the focus on you.

Jillian Leslie (00:30:43) – Here is the question of I feel like the hour I.

Samantha Burmeister (00:30:48) – Hmm.

Jillian Leslie (00:30:48) – How is you’re using AI? Just like I’m using AI for copywriting. Because why reinvent the wheel?

Samantha Burmeister (00:30:56) – So I my personal experience has been that because copy is written for people, it really takes that human element out of it. And I feel like I can smell AI a mile away. That said, for people writing their own copy, I think it’s a good jumping off point, but I don’t think it’s a copy and paste because first of all, you have to think about the transformation, and AI is only as good as the information that you give it. So then the question isn’t should you use AI? It’s how do you prompt AI? Um, and that’s something that I have not personally invested the time into figuring it out. But you have to know. You have to know that what you want it to say in the end, which means you have to have a really solid grasp on your target audience and understanding what is the transformation that you provide? What is the transformation that your client, your ideal client, desires? Because you have to be able to tell it that for it to create any sort of copy around it.

Samantha Burmeister (00:32:05) – And I think that’s what’s so different when using AI for content versus AI for copy, because you could say, as you know, again, using the California coast, like, what are five great hotels on the California coast? And what do people love about them? And it’s going to aggregate that information from the internet. But on the other hand, if you’re saying, um, I’m trying to think of a transformation that somebody would want in a similar example, um. But if you’re saying like, how do you like, I don’t know, avoid fights with your partner and kids when you’re on a road trip or like so you have to understand first that it’s how do we create? Their ideal transformation is that they have a fight free, like blissful family vacation on the California coast. And we have to understand that first and then say, how do we create a landing page? That is for my mini course about or other digital product that ultimately leads them to these three outcomes and this ideal transformation. So.

Samantha Burmeister (00:33:14) – So what I and that’s why I’ve struggled so much with AI is it’s going to take a lot of creative liberty when ultimately it’s that human touch and really understanding people. And what it is that your people want is the point that you’re trying to drive home. So now it’s a little bit different with coffee. Yeah, I.

Jillian Leslie (00:33:35) – Totally get it. One thing that I do is I prompt my AI, which is ChatGPT. I pay for the paid version. So it’s GPT four. I will say you are a world class copywriter who understands human psychology. So I set my AI up to be that. And then I say, give me text sales copy to get my customer to this, you know, transformation. So I it is all about, I think, the prompt versus just kind of you’re right. If I need the five best beaches super easy. But you’re right. You have to do a little more thinking. Also prompt it for what you want it to be. So it’s like you are the world class copywriter who uses psychology to sell.

Jillian Leslie (00:34:28) – My target audience is moms who who care about their family cohesion or want their family to have a wonderful trip. Sell her on how to, you know, the whatever it is. Create a sales sales email on how to have a loving, fun vacation instead of and manage the stress. Something like that. But you’re right, I have to know what that transformation is like. I have to know the pieces that we’re talking about. Who do they want to be? Calm, like paint the picture of the outcome and then prime the AI to be this excellent copywriter using advanced psychology or whatever it is to get me from point A to point B.

Samantha Burmeister (00:35:24) – Yeah, yeah. And I think once you’ve written a sales page that converts and you are confident in like what? Either the sales page, Optin page, whatever, then you can feed that information to the eye and say using this brand voice, write me a 100 word or less email selling this to insert ideal audience here. So I and I want to say this publicly and clearly.

Samantha Burmeister (00:35:52) – I do not use AI at all for client work because that’s I just don’t know where AI is going and think the ethics behind it are that they paid me to write it. I will have I do use AI for my own stuff sometimes. Um, but I choose not to use it when I’m writing client copy.

Jillian Leslie (00:36:16) – I think ultimately though, I think AI is going to be kind of like the internet, you know, or like a word processor, that it’s going to be embedded into everything and that it’s just you being the prompt engineer, the better prompt engineer than I can be. Because you understand all of this underlying, say, psychology, you have the 10,000 hours. But I do believe it will just be kind of like the water we drink or the air we breathe.

Samantha Burmeister (00:36:47) – Yeah, yeah. And I think that’s another conversation too, is a lot of people seem to think that I came out earlier this year and like, I mean, I worked in tech sales for a long time, and I was working with AI and machine learning within that and working on client projects.

Samantha Burmeister (00:37:03) – I mean, I worked not with Amazon, but with a company that’s very similar on how do you get a machine, how do you use AI and machine learning to say, okay, I see that you bought, um, earbuds. Do you also want the carrying case? Like there’s a lot of technology that’s been out for a long time that has been learning. I mean, Siri, Alexa, all of those, um. Have they both heard me and they both lit up. I see them across the room like. You know, those have been out for a long time. And so we’ve been slowly learning how to prompt AI for a long time. Well, how about like this is showing up and I’m totally unique way for us as entrepreneurs.

Jillian Leslie (00:37:44) – I have autocomplete on in my emails, right? And in my Gmail, and all of a sudden I’ll be typing something and it knows what I want to write like. Yes, please, you know, let me know if you have any questions or whatever it is.

Jillian Leslie (00:37:55) – And so yes, absolutely. So I do believe that it is going to be us being prompt engineers that I can take you 50, 60, 70%. And then it’s that beautiful last piece where your expertise, your iterating, your learning, you knowing your audience, where that were you being human shows up.

Samantha Burmeister (00:38:17) – Yeah, yeah, yeah I agree I like that term prompt engineers.

Jillian Leslie (00:38:22) – Yeah. Well I think we all are becoming prompt engineers and that it is about experimenting, trying new ways of getting. Because if you just type in, write a sales page for me for selling my blah, blah, blah, course my get your body in there, you know, your ideal body in 30 days you’re not going to get it’s going to seem very generic. It’s not going to have all that nuance that you’re hoping to elicit.

Samantha Burmeister (00:38:51) – Yeah, I agree.

Jillian Leslie (00:38:52) – So I feel like the more you give it, the more you get back.

Samantha Burmeister (00:38:57) – Mhm. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And that comes with practice for sure.

Jillian Leslie (00:39:01) – So somebody who’s looking at their copy, whether it be a blog post, whether it be a newsletter, whether it be an email like a Instagram post, what would you say. Like the three tips are to up that copywriting and get the person to take action.

Samantha Burmeister (00:39:22) – Yeah, the two things that I find myself telling my copy on demand people all the time are brevity. And so I’ll come back to talk about brevity. I talk about authority and. Uh, transformation, of course. So transformation we already talked about because we love what we do. And we know innately what we do and what we offer. And we made the downloads. We made the digital products so we know what we’re capable of. They don’t care. Again, this comes back to like they don’t care about you and what you did and what you made them. They care about what that thing can do for them. So if you were to say like, okay, sure, like I’m going to go through the checklist and there’s going to be 25 things about this and that and the other, and that goes into five sections of five.

Samantha Burmeister (00:40:09) – And what is this checklist allow me to do? Can I do my taxes faster? Am I going to plan my road trip in 20 minutes or less? Am I going to have my meals planned for the week? You know what? What is the outcome of this? So focusing on transformation and then brevity and authority. Right. So brevity comes in a lot of ways. First of all we don’t need to know all the ins and outs of how you created it. You’re about me. You should literally never be more than 100 words long. Nobody cares about your childhood neighbors, dogs feet. Like, right? Like we don’t need the whole story. Um, so we talk about brevity, but also so your landing pages. I mean, if something is $50 or less, your sales page really only needs to be like two scrolls long. I think a lot of times people download a landing page template and they just think they have to fill in every section, and that’s not true. The longer I mean, think about it this way if you’ve ever signed a mortgage or seen a mortgage document and it’s like, you know, 50 pages long, if something that you pay a half $1 million for is 50 pages long, something that you pay $100 for does not need to be.

Jillian Leslie (00:41:20) – Think that that is super. And by the way, we tend to create our landing pages on our laptops, go look at it on mobile and and think that that person is online at target, like they’re in the line at target and you cannot be they you know, they like think about that mom with screaming kid in the line at target, going through your sales page and scrolling 30 times like, no set that set her up for success.

Samantha Burmeister (00:41:54) – Yes. Yeah. And like don’t hide your CTAs at the bottom either. I mean, and blog posts. It makes sense. But if we’re writing copy, um, make sure your call to action is within the first scroll of a website, because a lot of times people don’t purchase the first time they land on your page. So if they’re coming back to buy, don’t waste their time like you want to. Basically everything in the first scroll is like a mini version of everything else that’s on the page. You’re going to tell them what it is, who it’s for, and how to get it in like 20 words or less.

Samantha Burmeister (00:42:26) – Ideally. Um, and then also with brevity, you never want blocks of text. A lot of times, like the only time I’m really okay with it is your about section. And that’s because it’s typically people aren’t going to read your about section, if even on a landing page it’s like, oh hi, by the way, I’m Sam and this is my resume. Like, no, they just want to know what they’re getting out of the sales page. But it’s good to build your authority and you do kind of need it on the page. Um, and it helps to humanize what it is that you’re selling. But and that’s again, typically for longer or like more expensive or ongoing purchases if it’s a membership. But so brevity and then authority. People love to do this thing on sales pages. I’m sure it’s in some really famous template somewhere, but it’s where they ask questions as a way of showing the audience that you know them. So it’s like, do you wish that you could take the trip of a lifetime? Do you wish your family could come with you and that like, and they just continue to ask questions as a way of saying, like, I know my ideal audience and it’s one way to do it, but especially when it happens in the parts that are like above the fold, where it’s immediately like, I’m here to build my authority and tell you what you’re getting and how to get it, and that I’m the person you want to buy it from.

Samantha Burmeister (00:43:41) – And it’s like. There’s all these questions above the fold or like questions scattered throughout the page. Is it? While when strategically done, it can be a good way to show them that you know them. It also is a really great way to diminish your authority really fast. And it’s almost like.

Jillian Leslie (00:44:00) – Up, up speak, right? Yeah. Are you interested?

Samantha Burmeister (00:44:03) – Am like, yeah, like wondering who I am and how I can help you. Like, no, I’m Sam and I’m here to help.

Jillian Leslie (00:44:11) – I love that. Yep, yep.

Samantha Burmeister (00:44:13) – Yeah. We just have to be very direct when it comes to sales because confused people do not become buyers.

Jillian Leslie (00:44:23) – So there’s something to the fact that we all suffer from imposter syndrome. And I think the best way to to face it is to put it out there as if you didn’t have imposter syndrome, like the fake it till you make it. Because eventually if you put yourself out there enough, you start to kind of realize, wait, I do know something.

Jillian Leslie (00:44:44) – Oh, people are buying my product. They must think I’m in authority or they’re emailing me saying this was super helpful. And I think that the the, the way to counteract it is to be it, even if you don’t feel it. And I think starting with your sales pitch makes a lot of sense. I am this person that you should trust. And again, maybe I didn’t go to school to travel school, right? And I have all these degrees like, no, but guess what? I’ve traveled the world or I’ve traveled all over California with my family and we didn’t kill each other. In fact, here’s a picture of my smiling family at the end of the 15 day trip. Look at that. You want this? Buy my product.

Samantha Burmeister (00:45:27) – Yeah, and as creators, we have to kind of pretend to be experts in a lot of things. It’s like. So let’s say that you’re a travel expert, and all of a sudden now you have to be an SEO expert and a marketing expert and a whatever expert.

Samantha Burmeister (00:45:42) – It’s like just because you feel in confident with the way that you’re putting your sales page together doesn’t mean that you’re in confident in what it is that you’re actually delivering, and you need to lean into that energy of like, I am just so stoked to tell people how to travel the California coast. I’m really leaning into this example right now, and I don’t travel the California coast all that often just.

Jillian Leslie (00:46:01) – But still.

Samantha Burmeister (00:46:02) – You’re kind of.

Jillian Leslie (00:46:03) – Weirdly, though. Can you have a.

Samantha Burmeister (00:46:05) – Californian coast vlog? But, you know, yeah, like WordPress and Kajabi and this and that. The other like can can be overwhelming. But just because that feels overwhelming doesn’t mean that you can’t speak really authoritatively about what it is that you’re offering, because that’s what that okay. And that’s what people are looking to you for is your authority.

Jillian Leslie (00:46:27) – So reiterating brevity, I love it. Go through your sales page, cut out all the extraneous words, be ruthless to authority, no questions. Get yourself out there. Believe in your imposter.

Jillian Leslie (00:46:41) – Put your imposter syndrome right there, out, out in front. You know, own it. And three transformation. Not about me, not about why I did this. Not about how how many blocks of, you know, fields you get to fill in to plan your best trip? No. Sell that transformation. Not just the transformation. Sell the person, the vision of themselves in the future who has had the transformation and is a better version of themselves.

Samantha Burmeister (00:47:11) – Yep, 110%.

Jillian Leslie (00:47:13) – Okay, Samantha, if people want to learn more about who you are, what you do, what services you provide to turn them into better versions of themselves, where should they go?

Samantha Burmeister (00:47:28) – They should go to either Nomad Copy Agency. That’s where you can click on the form to work with me. If you’d like me to do any copy things for you. And then I’m an Instagram girlie, so I’m on Instagram at Nomad dot copy.

Jillian Leslie (00:47:43) – Nomad dot copy. Wonderful. Well, I think this was a really insightful conversation.

Samantha Burmeister (00:47:51) – Yeah.

Samantha Burmeister (00:47:51) – Thank you so much for having me. And I’m really an open book. I love giving away information, so if anybody feels compelled to reach out, please do. I’m happy to answer any questions or point in the right direction.

Jillian Leslie (00:48:02) – Well, thank you so much for coming on the show.

Samantha Burmeister (00:48:05) – Yes, thank you so much.

Jillian Leslie (00:48:07) – I hope you guys like this episode with Samantha. For me, my biggest takeaway is that now as online entrepreneurs and content creators, we need to add a new layer to our businesses. Before, we could just be putting out content that’s helpful and solve problems. Now there’s a whole other layer, which is how do I communicate myself, my authority to my readers? And how do I get them to go on the journey that I have planned out for them? And this includes things like buy my product, join my membership, see me as a human being outside of just my blog or my business. It’s that personal piece that I think is going to be even more important in 2024.

Jillian Leslie (00:48:59) – If you’re ready to start selling digital downloads, paid memberships, workshops, coaching courses, get on a free 20 minute exploratory call with me. I will hear what you want to build and help you come up with your strategy. You can do this at Milo tree.com/meet because I would love to meet you. And I would love to help you make money in a whole new way. And I will see you here again next week.

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