Today I’m talking with Kate Doster, email marketing strategist and very fun guest. Kate is here to explain why email marketing is exciting and easy. And I promise that after you listen, you will think so too!
The interview was so good, I’ve broken it into two parts so you don’t miss anything Kate has to say.
In Part 1 we talk all about how and why to grow your list, and the best ways to create a real relationship with your subscribers. In Part 2, we’ll get into actually creating a sales funnel with emails.
I think you’re going to really enjoy this!
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Host [00:00:03] Welcome to The Blogger Genius podcast brought to you by MiloTree. Here’s your host, Jillian Leslie.
Jillian: [00:00:11] Hey everybody. Welcome back to the show. Today I’m swimming in boxes. We are moving from Northern California to Austin.
Jillian: [00:00:21] If anybody is listening to this from Austin, please reach out. I would love to meet you in my new city.
Jillian: [00:00:29] OK. For today’s interview. It is terrific. It’s with Kate Doster. It is all about email marketing.
Jillian: [00:00:37] It went long so I’m splitting it in two. You will learn so much. So here is part 1 today.
Jillian: [00:00:46] My guest is Kate Doster. Kate is an email marketing strategist and I’m excited to have her on the show because I want to talk all things email marketing, and when I mentioned that to Kate her eyes lit up and she’s like, I could talk about it for days.
Jillian: [00:01:05] So welcome to the show, Kate.
Kate: [00:01:08] Hi. It’s true. It’s kind of a sickness, guys. It’s kind of a sickness.
Jillian: [00:01:11] So we have to get into how you started in this space and how you got into email marketing.
Kate: [00:01:20] OK. So it’s one of those much like yourselves. I had been actually making money online since like the Geocity and Live Journal days so like, we’re talking like Netscape browser guys.
Kate: [00:01:34] So like roughly forever. So back in that day it was more like a diary thing just kind of see what’s going on.
Kate: [00:01:41] Almost the way, like social sort of morphed now and primarily the way I was making income back then was I was doing a lot of what’s called retail flipping.
Kate: [00:01:48] So like I would buy things at discount department stores, usually more higher end, and then I would sell them on eBay. So that’s where I first made money online.
Jillian: [00:01:56] So what kinds of things were you doing that with? What what kinds of product?
Kate: [00:02:02] For that, and I think you’ll find this with most blogging in general, the riches are in the niches. So I actually did it with handbags. So it was purses.
Kate: [00:02:11] It’s really nice. You’re not looking for a whole bunch of stuff, like you know the brands that sell really well, you know how much you’re going to sell for it.
Kate: [00:02:17] So that way when you do see them, and discounts you know at different stores like you know, a T.J. Maxx or Marshalls. Like, is this a good buy to then go and flip.
Jillian: [00:02:26] So like a Kate Spade bag?
Kate: [00:02:28] Exactly.
Jillian: [00:02:29] OK. And was that lucrative?
Kate: [00:02:34] It was. I was in college at the time. So for me that it was OK. And I was doing it part time and I made more there than I did at my actual part time jobs so, yes.
Kate: [00:02:44] I sourced most of my purses from my part time job. So that is fun.
Kate: [00:02:50] And then I was in college and my parents were not very entrepreneurial at the time, and like very like anti-sales and all of that. So they’re like you know, go to college.
Kate: [00:02:59] They wanted you to get like a 9 to 5 job, like to be a teacher or something of that nature.
Kate: [00:03:03] So I went and I got my degree in communication. But like I was the kid that had like 80 million majors and I was in social services for a while, and then I ended up in the banking industry.
Kate: [00:03:15] And so along that sort of path, it would just sort of became more like sporadic. And it wasn’t my main source.
Kate: [00:03:22] So what had happened is back in 2012, when I was at my banking job I became pregnant with my first daughter. And at the time in the United States they could fire you for going on maternity leave.
Jillian: [00:03:36] What?!?
Kate: [00:03:36] And they did, because it wasn’t considered full time and I wasn’t there for a year. So like I had been there something like 11 months. Which is why I’ll never work for anybody else ever again.
Kate: [00:03:49] They would have you work just enough hours where you weren’t considered full time, but you were maxed out in your part time hours.
Kate: [00:03:57] I believe it’s changed in the United States since then, that pregnancy was considered an illness or an injury. And they’re like you have three days to come back to work or you’re fired.
Kate: [00:04:10] And I’m like not like laid off, oh no no. It will go down as a termination. So we worked out an agreement, that’s why I’m not going to stay the company. So it worked out that way.
Kate: [00:04:21] So I was kind of forced into being an at home mom, which was kind of nice but it wasn’t what I had expected.
Kate: [00:04:28] And then we had our other kid, and you know, life sort of happens and I’m like, I need to use my brain again.
Kate: [00:04:34] So I got back online, I started blogging, we started flipping. At that time I had done like a minimalist living blog about how I started to dip my toes back in there.
Kate: [00:04:45] My heart really wasn’t in that.
Jillian: [00:04:49] What is a Minimalist Living Blog?
Kate: [00:04:50] So it was a lot of, mindfulness get rid of a lot of your clutter. This is actually pre The Magical Art of Tidying Up.
Kate: [00:05:00] You got a little bit before then. And then her book came out and it blew up huge. But, and I’m sure you guys know this, with bloggers, it is one of the topics that my audience wanted me to talk about that I didn’t like.
Kate: [00:05:13] It’s like they all want to talk about like organization and things like that.
Kate: [00:05:17] I’m like “the whole reason why I got rid of all my stuff was so that I wouldn’t have to do all this.”
Kate: [00:05:22] And something that I had always really loved and you can just tell from me, I’ve always been a talker, a communicator. I loved it and I’d stumbled upon a different blog when I was trying to sharpen my writing skills.
Kate: [00:05:33] And I found this thing called copywriting, and if you guys had ever watched Mad Men. That’s what they did, like back in the ad agency days and I fell in love.
Kate: [00:05:41] So I found a really prestigious copywriter and I apprenticed under her, and then my business just like blew up.
Kate: [00:05:48] So I took freelance copywriting clients forever, and that’s how I made my money and then now I transitioned more into the coaching.
Jillian: [00:05:55] By teaching people.
Kate: [00:05:57] Exactly. Particularly email marketing because I just I couldn’t write another “about” page ever, that just didn’t light me up.
Kate: [00:06:03] But anytime I had to write an email series for somebody, whether it was selling or just in general, I’m sure we’ll talk about that just like that was my medium, and like oh my goodness, I love this.
Jillian: [00:06:14] Why? Why do you think it lit you up?
Kate: [00:06:17] I think it was because it’s a lot of storytelling. Even though you can have long emails and I’m sure we’ll talk about the length a little later.
Kate: [00:06:25] It was just sort of shorter, and honestly it was more personal to me than even like a general blog would be.
Kate: [00:06:32] You could actually let your client’s voice show through and tell a story you even have pictures. And I just really loved like the friendly intimate atmosphere of it.
Jillian: [00:06:44] Got it. So Ok, then let’s now dive into email and what you think. Like if I’m I’m a blogger and I want to sell a product.
Jillian: [00:07:02] Let’s say I’m collecting a list and by the way, when I ask other bloggers on this podcast what is the one thing that you wish you knew back then, what is it. And I can’t tell you how many say start collecting emails start creating a list.
Jillian: [00:07:21] But a lot of people go, “Well, I’m creating a list but I’m not exactly sure why.”
Kate: [00:07:27] Exactly. And the way that I like to think of it again copywriter background, is there’s a very famous copywriter and he asked all of his students; “If you going to start a hamburger stand what would you want?”
Kate: [00:07:40] So everyone’s like all the best location, Kobe beef, you know artisanal buns, a sponsor that would shout us out. Now the only thing you need is a hungry crowd of people.
Kate: [00:07:53] And that is what your email list is, it’s a hungry crowd of people.
Kate: [00:07:57] And primarily especially for us bloggers, that is what I consider myself now. I will be pumping out all these blog posts. But so is everyone else out in the world.
Kate: [00:08:05] And so what have happening is somebody could end up binge reading like 5 articles on how to plan the perfect party for their five year old. and they might not remember which one was even you.
Kate: [00:08:17] But when you get them on an email list. You give them more party advice and we’ll talk more about what to send people later.
Kate: [00:08:22] You’re going to be able to stick in their minds so they remember who you are and they keep on coming back. That’s why it’s so important.
Kate: [00:08:29] And this is why most bloggers end up struggling, because people will land on their site if they’re lucky, maybe they’ll read one other article. But there’s no staying power.
Kate: [00:08:38] There’s no way to be remembered.
Jillian: [00:08:40] And one thing that has really changed back from when when I started, which is like 2009, I would go to blogs and I would read them.
Jillian: [00:08:49] I’d read them every day or at least once a week and I’d leave comments on the blog.
Jillian: [00:08:54] And then with social media and especially something like Pinterest, people are popping into your site and then popping out of your site.
Jillian: [00:09:02] I’m looking for a recipe and I end up on a random blog and I like the recipe, but I don’t have a relationship with that blogger and chances are I’m going to pop off and maybe pop on to somebody else’s.
Kate: [00:09:19] Exactly. And you might have really liked say her blueberry muffin recipe, but you might not be able to find that later even in your browser history to see what else she can offer you because you want her recipes so easy and delicious.
Jillian: [00:09:31] And one thing I just have to say about MiloTree, for example, is you can collect email addresses from it, but one thought is that giving up your email address today is a big ask, so you can start with MiloTree by connecting with people on say, Instagram.
Jillian: [00:09:50] But then, if you can get them to follow you on Instagram, you know, that’s like a small ask, then ultimately if they come back to your site chances are you can then ask for their email address, and you know build the relationship that way.
Kate: [00:10:06] I completely agree. I think first of all, I love MiloTree. That’s how we connected guys. I’m a fangirl of MiloTree. What it has done for my Pinterest account, that’s primarily how I use it, has been just bonkers.
Kate: [00:10:18] I’m sure we’ll talk about later. I love MiloTree.
Jillian: [00:10:24] But, do you agree that asking for an email address can be a big ask?
Kate: [00:10:31] See part of me is torn. If you’re just offering updates and a newsletter. Yeah that’s a huge ask because nobody wants more I even call it junk mail now. People don’t want that.
Kate: [00:10:53] But, they might follow you on Instagram because they’ve got some scrolling to do.
Kate: [00:10:48] However, if you are actually offering them a piece of valuable content, something that is a problem solver, we call those either an opt-in gift or lead magnet, that actually solves an immediate problem they have.
Kate: [00:11:02] It’s not a big ask at all, they are literally so excited to give you their email address because you’re solving some type of pain that they have.
Jillian: [00:11:09] I love that. Yep yep. So. Okay so I’m a blogger I’m collecting emails. What do I do?
Jillian: [00:11:19] And I don’t yet know what product I’m selling. But let’s say I am let’s pick a niche. I am a organizer. Organizing blog like your favorite right. I teach people how to organize.
Kate: [00:11:41] Ok, so the very first thing that you would need to do, I think people get very almost obsessed with their list number, but what they don’t realize is that just your email list is only one part of like a six part ecosystem that is email marketing.
Kate: [00:11:57] And I think that’s where a lot of disconnect tends to be. So I just want to make that clear.
Kate: [00:12:02] So once we have decided on a free gift, so say probably some type of printable, so maybe like organizational labels or even like a game plan for people to tackle clutter in their kitchen, like a nice checklist that would be really great.
Kate: [00:12:17] So what you would want to do is of course, you can go and look on your blog and see where are people landing on there the most. So what types of post are really popular, that sort of the first set to go.
Kate: [00:12:30] Then you’ll sort of have an idea in the back of your head, like you know what I’d really like to create something actually around like conquering kids clutter.
Kate: [00:12:37] Because all of the posts that are really popular, and where I’m getting all my sign ups tend to be on these posts.
Kate: [00:12:44] So what you can do in your emails is just ask people like you know, “What rooms are you really struggling with?” Ask them questions to start feeling some answers.
Kate: [00:12:53] So then, before you actually spend time and sometimes money to create your paid offer, you can do what I call pre-selling.
Kate: [00:13:02] Now some people it gets them little nervous. If you’re like me, where you’re like queen of the procrastinators you kind of need to.
Kate: [00:13:10] So what you do is you’ve been interacting with your email list, you’ve been checking your analytics. Then, send a message like, “Hey guys. So I’m thinking of creating this ultimate tool kit all about conquering kids clutter so that way we don’t have to yell at them constantly picking up their toys and things are nice.” Now as you noticed, right there. So we don’t have to yell at them and things are nice. That’s a benefit of having a clean room.
Kate: [00:13:35] Why do people want a clean room? For me, as a mom so I don’t have to tell my kids and work out a deal with the hassle.
Kate: [00:13:41] You know, “Is that something that you guys would be interested in?” and then if you just got a little bit of a yes back, usually just like you know, “Hit reply and let me know.”
Jillian: [00:13:53] Ok, I will say this which is I try this. And it is true that my audience does talk to me, but not as much as I would like.
Kate: [00:14:01] Then find the diehard fan and go with them. That’s usually what I like to say.
Kate: [00:14:08] Find those people that are diehard that are interacting with you whether they’re interacting with you in social media, whether they’re interacting with you in your list, and really dive in and start almost a personal conversation with them via your email not your whole email list when they reply back to you.
Kate: [00:14:24] To really get it, because chances are, if they were attracted to you and they’re having these feelings and these problems or these issues or even just interests a whole bunch of other people who are being quiet have those same things.
Jillian: [00:14:36] OK because I want you to know that that that calms me down, because people always say, “Talk to your list and they’ll tell you what they want.” And and I will do that and then I get crickets or I get a couple of responses.
Jillian: [00:14:51] But you’re saying take those responses and dig deeper and set up a call with that person.
Kate: [00:14:57] Exactly. That is worth like a gajillion dollars. If that is a monetary amount is just either get somebody on the phone or just really keeping up that open line of communication with them.
Kate: [00:15:09] Because, we might think that they want something, but we don’t know it until we can kind of get to the reasons underneath it.
Kate: [00:15:16] And the other thing that I have to say, particularly with us bloggers, when it comes to creating products, the easiest one that you want to start talking about is something that you can use yourself, or something that you’ve already accomplished.
Kate: [00:15:35] Because, where I find a big disconnect when it comes to selling, especially via email is a lot of people have that, “Who am I to talk about this” mentality.
Kate: [00:15:43] We’re like, “Oh you know, I don’t know enough about knitting or writing.”
Kate: [00:15:48] I’m not a professional organizer. Like I’m just a mom who hates tripping over stuff.
Kate: [00:15:54] So when you go into that mindset with even if it’s a, I call it a tiny victory, and you sort of base your product around that, the enthusiasm that you will have, the amount of times that you will tell people about it, because spoiler alert guys if you’re just emailing your list once about your paid offer it’s not going to work.
Kate: [00:16:49] The root cause of when you’re deciding to do a product, and after you see what everyone likes that’s on your list, you want to ask yourself, like “what results do I have?” Because that’s what you can talk about.
Jillian: [00:16:25] Got it. OK.
Jillian: [00:16:26] So let’s keep going. OK. So I’m an organizer blogger. I’ve come up with a an opt-in which is I’m going to do a checklist for how to clean up your kitchen.
Jillian: [00:16:38] And by the way, I’ve heard this and you can tell me if you agree, your opt-in should be one page like it is not an e-book. It is not something where the person who gets it goes, “Oh my god, I have to now read this whole thing.”
Jillian: [00:16:52] It should be like quick and easy.
Kate: [00:16:55] Yes. You want to do it as digestible as possible.
Jillian: [00:16:59] OK. I give away this opt-in and it’s working and I’m getting people on my list and I now have big a list.
Jillian: [00:17:09] Would you say I need to actually kind of go, “Yeah, I’m here.” What would you say that that should be.
Kate: [00:17:15] “Yeah I’m here” as in regularly sending e-mails? Or “yeah I’m thinking of a product”?
Jillian: [00:17:19] Let’s start with, “Yeah I’m here, I’m going to start regularly sending e-mails,” and then “I’m now ready to sell a product.”
Jillian: [00:17:26] What would you say those should be about?
Kate: [00:17:29] One literally number one. If there’s one person on your list and it’s yourself you need to start emailing weekly.
Jillian: [00:17:35] OK. Even if it’s just your mom.
Kate: [00:17:36] Even if it is just your mom because, think about this. If you’re a giant introvert or even if you’re not. Do you want to learn how to do public speaking in front of thousands of people or would you much rather it just be your best friend and your mom in the room?
Jillian: [00:17:51] Great.
Kate: [00:17:52] That’s the same way with email marketing. Email a lot while you’re small. So that way, by the time you are “bigger,” I’m using air quotes and the time you have more of a crowd, you’re comfortable in your writing style.
Kate: [00:18:05] You’re comfortable hitting send, because so many people are so afraid of hitting the send button and getting unsubscribes, it will stop them from even sending emails.
Kate: [00:18:13] And people want to read your emails. That’s what they signed up for your list starting when you have a one person is the best bet.
Kate: [00:18:25] When it comes to selling particularly for us bloggers, I say honestly 100 people. I know as everyone says a thousand. That’s not true at all.
Kate: [00:18:31] I feel like when you have a thousand when you have 100 people you can start talking to them at that point if you are on any of the email service providers you can have them send you an alert when someone signs up for your list so you can reach out and send them a personal message.
Kate: [00:18:47] “Hey Jillian, thank you so much for hopping on the list. You know, don’t you just hate kitchen clutter” and just open up a conversation.
Kate: [00:18:53] Now, not everyone is going to reply back to that right. But the more that you can talk to people right the more they will feel special, because you have time to give them to feel special and they’ll be brand advocates.
Kate: [00:19:05] They’ll help you make your program and then they’re going to tell everyone for you. And you’re like “Oh yeah! pre-sales and referrals!
Jillian: [00:19:12] What I really like about that what you’re saying is do things in the beginning when you’re building that are not scalable.
Kate: [00:19:20] Exactly.
Jillian: [00:19:21] And what I mean by that, if that doesn’t make sense, is you’re just starting your list you got five people on your list you’ve got enough time. You can send each one of those five people a personal email.
Jillian: [00:19:33] Now when 500 people join your list chances are you can’t do that when you reach out to each one individually. So take advantage of the fact that you’re small and that you can start building these relationships.
Kate: [00:19:47] Exactly! And the other thing that I have to say especially about selling products is you need to set some realistic expectations.
Kate: [00:19:59] If you’re going to be selling a 15 dollar ebook that’s a bunch of printables or checklist or organizational kit and you only have 100 people on your list. You’re not going to make a hundred thousand dollars.
Kate: [00:20:11] Unless you are planning to charge like five hundred thousand dollars.
Kate: [00:20:15] But if you’re planning to charge something like ten dollars. You know you can kind of figure, even if I make 50 dollars that’s still huge at the beginning because then again you’re small.
Kate: [00:20:26] Reach out to those five people. Thank them so much for buying. Send them a little personalized video. Ask them what they want and then you can add to it which means you can raise your prices which means you have testimonials which means you have more people which means you have more advocates.
Kate: [00:20:40] And I wish you could see my hand. It’s like this upside down pyramid. You just get bigger and bigger and bigger because of that.
Jillian: [00:20:45] Yeah I agree. So yes so here are the advantages to being small and just starting.
Jillian: [00:20:52] You know, I am a big believer in like pushing myself off the cliff. I don’t want to send. I don’t want to press send and I will push myself to do it even.
Jillian: [00:21:06] If you get my emails. I wrote about how I’ve come to embrace typos in my newsletters because it’s kind of the cost of doing business. And by the way when I find one, I do, I cringe. Oh my God do I cringe.
Jillian: [00:21:23] But I’ve come to kind of be kinder to myself and say well this is the cost of doing business.
Jillian: [00:21:28] You want to be communicating with your list. If I had to wait until every typo was gone I’d send one newsletter a year.
Kate: [00:21:39] I am laughing because I honestly made it a game with my subscribers. And like, again I got paid a lot of dollars to write things for people and I still have typos and I still make hundreds of dollars every single day.
Kate: [00:21:51] Even if an email has a typo just send it because you seem normal.
Jillian: [00:21:56] Totally. And you know it’s weird. I read this. You could tell me what you think about this when you write a newsletter and you mess up like the link doesn’t work, or you forgot the link or whatever it is you know then you get that second newsletter from that person going like oops sorry. You know that kind of thing.
Jillian: [00:22:21] The open rate of those e-mails is higher than the original e-mail because people want to know what happened.
Jillian: [00:22:31] They want to know how you messed up. There’s you know it’s a little bit like, ooh I like that. Oops.
Jillian: [00:22:38] You know and so I had read even that it’s not a bad idea. Every so often to send that email to mess up on purpose. To send that email apologizing because you get more interaction.
Kate: [00:22:51] I personally wouldn’t do that because I feel like it’s being disingenuous.
Jillian: [00:22:56] Yes, I agree.
Kate: [00:22:57] Because you’re doing something on purpose. But if it happens definitely send that email.
Jillian: [00:23:03] Like, embrace it!
Kate: [00:23:03] Go ahead. Yeah exactly. Don’t feel bad don’t try to cover it up don’t be embarrassed like just be like “Oh my goodness guys this is what happened” and you’ll seem more normal.
Kate: [00:23:12] But yeah if that ends up happening where you send them to the wrong blog or the sales page doesn’t work or something isn’t working. Owning up to it is huge.
Jillian: [00:23:22] Yes. And you weirdly might be rewarded for it because you’re human.
Kate: [00:23:26] Exactly. People buy from people. People like that.
Jillian: [00:23:30] I like that. OK so I’ve got my list and I’m growing it and I’m up to 200 people on my list. What should I be doing?
Jillian: [00:23:39] How often should I be sending them emails.? How do I start my sales process?
Kate: [00:23:47] OK. So we talked a little bit about that about how you want to be asking your e-mails questions.
Kate: [00:23:52] And again even if three or four people are applying that’s really good because we want to make sure that we’re not creating in a bubble.
Kate: [00:23:59] We want to make sure that we’re actually making something that not only people want, but that people want from us.
Jillian: [00:24:06] And to pay for.
Kate: [00:24:07] Exactly. And there’s always going to be people on your list that are never going to pay you a dime in your life.
Kate: [00:24:14] And I don’t want to kick them off or get mad at them because they might be referring you to other people that to pay you. So that’s just kind of a way to thank those non buyers on your list.
Kate: [00:24:23] They could be spreading the word about you to actual buyers.
Jillian: [00:24:26] Could we talk about like what percent you can assume will buy. Isn’t it, if you can get two percent of your list to buy your product. You are doing well?
Kate: [00:24:39] Yes and is that kind of the rule of thumb. Yes. The reason mine is a lot higher like this is what I do for a living.
Kate: [00:24:51] But yes if you’re going to anywhere honestly from one to two percent of people usually one, honestly.
Kate: [00:24:57] Sometimes a little bit lower depending on the offer and the industry is actually really good.
Kate: [00:25:03] It’s really good guys. Do not feel discouraged at all. Be happy that you made the sale.
Jillian: [00:25:08] So that means, by the way, if you have a hundred people on your list and you’re selling a 10 dollar product you might make somewhere between 10 to 20 dollars.
Kate: [00:25:21] But you never know because you reached out to 10 people who actually replied back to you and they feel like they’ve had some part in it like you could do really well.
Kate: [00:25:30] But again just don’t think you are going to make ten thousand dollars off a five dollar ebook.
Jillian: [00:25:35] OK great.
Kate: [00:25:36] Just to have expectations. So we have all guys it is a rite of passage if you have tried to sell something in our industry they call it launching, but you try to like actually put something out in the world and nobody buys. Everybody has that.
Kate: [00:25:53] So I want you not to be sad or disappointed. I mean obviously you can crawl in your bed and watch Gilmore Girls that day if you feel bad when your cart closes.
Kate: [00:26:02] But know, that means that you were doing something that 99 percent of the population will never do because they’re too scared to take that chance.
Kate: [00:26:11] And did it! Give yourself a round of applause.
Jillian: [00:26:14] And then yes you can lick your wounds. I do that and then you could say OK what can I learn from this.
Kate: [00:26:24] Exactly. And there’s always something. You know, Was I emailing at the right times? Was I actually not only just addressing people it really go for like logistical things like price but like, did I address them of the psychological factors and triggers behind that?
Kate: [00:26:39] You know, did I paint the picture of how much better life is going to be after this?
Kate: [00:26:44] I mean, you’re not going to talk like you know the life changing art of a clean living room per se.
Kate: [00:26:48] Like did I actually address those things? You know, did I talk about it enough on social media? Did enough people actually know about this like we were just talking?
Kate: [00:26:57] If only 20 people saw your offer and you only emailed about it once, well then OK now you know next time you know email than once.
Jillian: [00:27:06] Got it. Yep. All right so now I’ve got my list. I’ve got 200 people on my list.
Jillian: [00:27:12] How often just in general how often should I be sending e-mail newsletters?
Kate: [00:27:19] I say once a week I think I heard an audible gasp. That’s only four.
Jillian: [00:27:27] Four a month, okay.
Kate: [00:27:27] Y’all can handle it, just four.
Jillian: [00:27:30] OK, so again I’m an organizer. What are my e-mails about?
Kate: [00:27:35] Oh my goodness there’s so many buckets that you can use like it’s it’s unbelievable. This is why I get so excited.
Kate: [00:27:41] So of course there’s the standard where you could tease out a little bit about what you wrote on the blog this week and send them a blog link, but you don’t want to necessarily do that in all four because why would somebody bother.
Kate: [00:27:53] So you could again send out just a plain old question to people, like what’s the one room in your house that if you woke up to tomorrow and it was crystal clean you’d fall over in disbelief? That’s literally your email.
Jillian: [00:28:07] Literally that’s all I’m writing?
Kate: [00:28:09] That’s it. That is it. And you can have a PS like at the bottom. “Next week I’ll share mine” or “when you reply back then I’ll tell you mine.”
Kate: [00:28:17] So that way you’re starting to open lines of communication. It’s more friendly. It’s going on.
Kate: [00:28:22] Maybe then the next week you are going to do some fun finds. So you could do your five favorite organizational tools for garages.
Kate: [00:28:31] I don’t know. If it’s summertime because that will make sense, because it’s seasonal so that’s it is just five fun finds.
Kate: [00:28:38] If you happen to have affiliate relationships check to see if you’re allowed to put affiliate links in your emails. Some places you can’t.
Kate: [00:28:46] I think Amazon you might not be able to. But, you know, obviously double check those as well.
Kate: [00:28:51] Maybe you go into a program that’s free like Canva and you just create a little tool guide really quick because then you could have your affiliate links in that.
Kate: [00:29:01] And you’re like, “Hey guys, I know that summer is coming and garages are stuffed full of all that stuff from spring and winter. Here are my top five tools for keeping everything organized especially all that soccer equipment.”
Kate: [00:29:14] And then you just give them a little link to your PDF that you made and then they’re off on their way. And they’re like, “Oh this is so nice.”
Jillian: [00:29:20] Here’s the question. Do you recommend shorter emails or longer emails?
Kate: [00:29:26] I say, this is a term I got from Ryan Schwartz. Always call your people here. If it’s going to be long, which is fine because people read it, don’t throw bricks at people.
Kate: [00:29:38] Meaning your email could be like a gajillion words but if it’s like every couple of sentences you have different paragraphs just like you do with blogging, guys.
Kate: [00:29:48] And you have got some bold and italicizing and there’s an interesting story that people will keep reading while they’re scrolling. So I don’t want you to ever be like, “Oh, well I talk too much for email.” That’s fine.
Kate: [00:30:01] People will read it if it’s interesting and it’s formatted well.
Jillian: [00:30:03] Wait. So I’m now just understanding what you mean by don’t throw bricks at people. Don’t throw big long paragraphs.
Kate: [00:30:11] Exactly. Because people are still skimmers and you know think about yourself when you’re reading your email on your cell phone like your thumb is sort of constantly going.
Kate: [00:30:19] So that’s why, if you do have an email that you consider a little bit on the longer side make sure, just like we do in our blogs, that you are using those boldface like so that way people can see the more important points of your email.
Jillian: [00:30:30] Got it. So break it up like, use space.
Kate: [00:30:34] Exactly. Use space. You don’t need to be like having a word count.
Kate: [00:30:39] I know some people think oh my goodness “should it be like under 200 words?” Well if you only need 200 words, then awesomesauce.
Jillian: [00:30:46] I do this and since you are a copywriter you could tell me what you think.
Jillian: [00:30:50] I tend to like to write with a lot of words like “just” and those kinds of filler words. And so I will go back to my email and I will cut all of those words out because I want it to be as concise as possible
Kate: [00:31:08] And that is perfect. “Just” is a really good one. If you’re using “and” a lot that’s something to look at can you make them two sentences.
Kate: [00:31:16] The word “that” is actually the biggest culprit of filler language that there is out there. The word “that..
Kate: [00:31:22] Usually you can slice them right down things will flow easier and it will read easier. So that’s a great tip.
Jillian: [00:31:28] Great. OK. So I do that. I’ve just started where I go “I don’t need all these words” and in a weird way, psychologically I think I use them to soften my power.
Kate: [00:31:45] Oooh. How so? I’m intrigued.
Jillian: [00:31:47] Just to…Like there! Instead of just saying it, I qualify it. By these softening words.
Kate: [00:31:58] You’re normal! Congrats!
Jillian: [00:32:00] Yes. So I’ve decided that because in general I want to not be softening what I’m saying. It’s also a good exercise for me to fully put my voice out there without qualifying it.
Kate: [00:32:14] Never apologize for emailing people unless you sent them the wrong link and you’re not apologizing for sending them that second email, you’re apologizing for the wrong link.
Jillian: [00:32:24] Yes. I like it.
Kate: [00:32:25] Like “I know you’re busy, but I just want to let you know…” No.
Jillian: [00:32:27] Yes. Yes.
Kate: [00:32:29] Like you wouldn’t say, “Oh I know you’re busy but since you have a headache here’s the aspirin.”
Kate: [00:32:32] No they’re happy the aspirin is there. Just give them the aspirin people, just give them the aspirin.
Jillian: [00:32:36] I like that. I really like that.You don’t want to be apologizing for showing up in somebodies email inbox.
Kate: [00:32:47] No you do not.
Jillian: [00:32:49] Because you don’t even want to put the reader in the mind space of like, “Yeah I am really busy and you really are bothering me.”
Kate: [00:32:57] Like “Oh you again!”
Jillian: [00:32:58] Like oh because you told me I should feel offended. I will feel offended.
Kate: [00:33:03] Exactly. And when we talk a little bit about actually like sales emails which spoiler alert y’all, every email you send is a sales email.
Kate: [00:33:12] Ah shocking I know!
Jillian: [00:33:16] So let’s talk about it.
Kate: [00:33:18] The big things that I preach to everyone who listen to me which is you guys, because I’m in your ear holes.
Kate: [00:33:24] You need to sell the fact that even in a content rich email, so that’s like one we’re sharing a quick tip or even a link to your blog post.
Kate: [00:33:33] You are selling the fact that you’re an authority in your topic, that you are trustworthy that you are likable, that you are someone that I should be paying attention to.
Kate: [00:33:42] You are selling the fact that your stuff deserves a spot in someone’s inbox. You’re selling the fact and this is like the hugest thing which will just make you love email so much you’re selling the fact that you care.
Kate: [00:33:55] Because every single blogger I have ever met. And this is why, no offence to every one else. We’re the best. We care about our readers so much. It’s almost sickening.
Kate: [00:34:05] We’re obsessed with making their lives better. Whether it’s a healthy meal, whether it’s having fun painting, whether it’s having your party be the best party ever.
Kate: [00:34:14] And when you go in with that mindset and you’re selling to them the fact that you care they’ll feel it guys.
Kate: [00:34:19] They will feel it.
Jillian: [00:34:21] So that’s it. That is the end of Part 1 comeback next week where Kate and I go so deep into how to build a sales marketing funnel.
Jillian: [00:34:32] And if you want to grow your e-mail list sign up for MiloTree.
Jillian: [00:34:37] You can also grow Instagram Facebook YouTube Pinterest all from the same pop up. If you sign up now go to MiloTree.com and you will get your first 30 days free.
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