#167: When and How to Run Ads on Facebook and Instagram

If you’ve ever wondered when and how to run ads on Facebook and Instagram, don’t miss my episode of The Blogger Genius Podcast where I interview Shelby Fowler, Facebook and Instagram ads expert.

In the episode, they discuss:

• What’s going on with Facebook and Instagram ads today
• Are Facebook and Instagram ads creepy?
• Which types of ads are working best
• How to know what your objective is when running ads
• How to get started by yourself or by hiring someone
• How much you should be spending to get results
• What do real results look like?
• And much more!

This is a great episode if you want to explore running ads in 2021! The main takeaways are: know your objective and work off of what’s already working in your business!

Show Notes

• MiloTree
• Catch My Party
• The Blogger Genius Podcast on iTunes
• Become a Blogger Genius Facebook Group
• Fempire Media with Shelby Fowler
• Fempire Ads Academy
• Group Leads
• ClipScribe

Subscribe to The Blogger Genius Podcast:

• iTunes
• Stitcher
• YouTube
• Spotify
• Amazon Music

When and How to Run Ads on Facebook and Instagram

Intro 0:04
Welcome to The Blogger Genius Podcast brought to you by MiloTree. Here’s your host, Jillian Leslie.

Jillian Leslie 0:11
Hello, my friends. Welcome back to The Blogger Genius Podcast. I’m your host, Jillian Leslie, I am founder of the MiloTree app, Catch My Party. I am a business coach and a business translator.

I take what’s working in blogging and online business today and I break it down. So, you can use these strategies yourself. Before I get started, I want to invite you to join my Facebook group.

It is called, The Become a Blogger Genius Facebook group. And it’s a really nice space on the internet. I’m in there all the time. If you want to come and connect with me and talk to me, please join.

And it’s a super nice group of entrepreneurs, growing their businesses and supporting each other. So, please join, I’d love to see you over there.

For today’s episode, I have Shelby Fowler on the show. She is a Facebook and Instagram ads expert. We talk about when you should run ads, how you should run ads, what’s working today, in ads on these platforms.

If you’ve ever thought about what it takes, and how much you’re going to spend, this is the episode for you. So, without further delay, here is Shelby Fowler. Shelby, welcome to the show.

Shelby Fowler 1:35
Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

Jillian Leslie 1:38
So, we are going to get into ads. And just even before I press record, we started talking about when ads work, when ads don’t. It’s not a one size fits all proposition.

Shelby Fowler 1:49
Right.

Jillian Leslie 1:51
So, before we get started, will you share a little bit about your background and how you got interested in Facebook and Instagram ads?

Shelby Fowler 2:00
Yes, absolutely. So, I started a social media marketing agency several years ago, about three years ago. And what I realized working with clients is that I loved running ads. And so, I was providing Facebook and Instagram ads to clients.

And I began to phase out my other services a little over a year ago, and really focus in on Facebook and Instagram ads and what the obsession was for me is seeing the return.

So, for organic social media, which I fully believe in, by the way. It takes a little bit of time to see the results. You’re playing long game here. And with ads, it was like the icing on the cake. So, everything we were doing organically, we could scale really fast.

And I got to see the return on it. So, that was fascinating to me, and the nuances of ads and all the strategies and things like that. I just got obsessed with it. And so now, we are a Facebook and Instagram ads agency and that’s all we do.

We eat, breathe, sleep Instagram and Facebook ads. And I love being able to see how it helps businesses scale quickly.

Jillian Leslie 3:28
So, those early clients or even your current clients, again, what verticals are they in? What are they promoting? Where are you finding a sweet spot for people running ads?

Shelby Fowler 3:41
Yeah. So, there’s definitely different types of ads. e-commerce ads are vastly different than lead generation. So, if you had a local based business, your ads are going to look a lot different.

Coaches, course creators, online entrepreneurs, online businesses, who we work with. And their ads are going to look a lot different than e-commerce. So, there’s definitely different types of ads. And we primarily work with those online business owners.

So, we love that because we can see, we can grow your email list, we can get you super-duper visible in front of your target audience. We can sell your courses, we can fill your webinars, that’s what we’re good at.

And that’s a lot of what we do, as well as getting eyeballs on your blog posts and just making you the number one. Really working towards getting you to like the number one in your niche so, that people see you as a household name in that niche.

What’s Going on With Facebook and Instagram Ads Today?

Jillian Leslie 4:52
Interesting. Okay, let’s talk about the state of Facebook ads and Instagram ads today. I know that of course, they’re both owned by Facebook.

And I know there’s like one dashboard where you can run Facebook ads and Instagram ads, so you can kind of integrate them. But how would you differentiate them?

Where do you see the value and the opportunities in running Facebook ads versus say Instagram ads today?

Shelby Fowler 5:19
Yes, that’s a great question. It’s going to depend on where your market is. Whether you should really focus on Instagram, or really focus on Facebook.

Primarily, what we do with clients a lot of the times is we run the ad on the Instagram feed and the Facebook feed. However, what we’re finding is working really well right now is when you have placement specific ads.

What that means is, let’s say you film a vertical video really quick, two minutes or less, you make it fun, you can have like emojis around you and things like that. And you run it on Instagram stories and Facebook stories only. That’s actually working really well.

Again, it’s like having that placement specific. They’re only running on stories, because you have a lot of people who are consuming, especially Instagram. A lot of people are consuming stories right now.

And I think that we’re going to see that just continue on, it’s going to get more and more popular.

Run Ads on the Platform Your Audience is On

So, if your market is primarily on Instagram, then definitely put more energy behind that because you can even create, like custom audiences of people who’ve engaged on your Instagram.

Who have sent you messages, things like that, that way you can target them with your ads, and you can even create look alike audiences based on those who have engaged on Instagram.

Jillian Leslie 6:53
Before you continue, let’s just back up and talk to me what is a custom audience versus a look alike audience?

Shelby Fowler 7:14
Facebook owns Instagram and Facebook. So, a custom audience for people who have engaged on Instagram is going to be Facebook’s data of who has liked, commented sent you message saved your Instagram posts, or they’ve missed been messaging you.

So, it’s using Facebook’s data, or your Facebook pixel, you can create a custom audience for people who have visited your website if you have that little pixel code on your website.

So, before you run ads, I definitely recommend everybody go and install your Facebook pixel. It’s like a little tracking device that goes on your website, goes on your landing pages.

And then it tracks who is visiting those pages so that you can retarget them with your ads.

Jillian Leslie 8:07
Right.

Shelby Fowler 8:08
So, once you have that pixel set up, you can go inside of ads manager in Facebook Ads Manager. And then you can set up custom audiences under the audience tab.

And then you can click website visitors, you can click Instagram engagers, Facebook engagers, you can do all of this cool stuff. Those will be custom audiences, just data.

What Does a Facebook Custom Pixel Do?

Jillian Leslie 8:32
I just have to say so, this is where for business owners, it’s really cool, as users, it can be a little creepy, because people who are coming to your website are also on Facebook, and they’re also on Instagram.

So, what they can do is match a visitor to your website to that same person when they are on Facebook, when they are on Instagram. So, it’s like I take my own visitors. And then Facebook knows they’ve now come to my site.

And they know in 20 minutes, they’re going to be on Instagram and boom, they can show them an ad there or they can boom show them an ad when they’re on Facebook. So, that’s just like the creepiness and also the power.

Shelby Fowler 9:15
Yeah, exactly. It is super creepy and super cool at the same time.

Jillian Leslie 9:20
I get it and depends on like what hat you’re wearing.

Shelby Fowler 9:23
Right. Exactly.

Jillian Leslie 9:25
So okay, that is a custom audience. And now what is a look alike audience?

What is A Look Alike Audience?

Shelby Fowler 9:32
Yes. So, once you have a custom audience set up, you can click on it and then create a look alike audience from that. So, let’s say it’s website visitors, okay. You click on, ‘create, look alike audience’ from that.

And what it’s going to do, it’s going to pull people who look like those who have visited your website before. So, they have similar tendencies. They have some likes, dislikes. They have similar buying behaviors.

Because Facebook has more data on us, then I don’t know what else does. It’s creepy and cool, like weird. It’s both creepy and cool. It has so much data on us. But those look alike audiences can be some of your best performing audiences.

So, they’re going to be cold. They’re people who don’t know who you are. But they are like those who already know who you are, they already have been on your website.

You can even create look alike audiences, from people who’ve bought from you before, or for people on your email list. And it’s pretty simple to do this.

When you go inside of ‘audiences’, create custom audience, you’re going to create your custom audience. It walks you through, it’s very clear and very simple. Don’t be overwhelmed.

And then once that custom audience is set up, you’ll just click on it and create a look alike.

Jillian Leslie 10:58
Got it. And again, it’s kind of funny, because I think we like to think of ourselves as super unique. But I’m a mother who lives in Austin, who shops at Target and Whole Foods. And guess what? There are a lot of people like me, and I’m a blogger.

There are a lot of people like me who do all those exact things. So, as soon as you start to realize, well, they can like, almost create a clone. There’s a clone of me somewhere out there that has the same habits that I do.

And that’s the power of the look alike audience.

Shelby Fowler 11:30
Mm hmm. Exactly.

Jillian Leslie 11:32
And it’s amazing that Facebook can figure that out.

Shelby Fowler 11:35
Right. It’s creepy and cool.

Jillian Leslie 11:38
It’s creepy and cool. I feel like I’m going to title this creepy and cool ads, just because it is. Okay. So, here’s the big question. I’m a blogger, and I do DIY, home decor thing.

Does it Makes Sense Run Ads if I Mostly Monetize with Ads?

And I monetize predominantly via ads on my site. Does it ever make sense to run ads to then make money with ads?

Shelby Fowler 12:07
Yes. So, if you had something for sale, you could do that or to build your email list?

Jillian Leslie 12:16
Let’s say just for my ad income, I have ad network, they show ads on my site. Does it ever make sense to run ads to my blog post to get visitors seeing my post?

Shelby Fowler 12:33
Yes, so we’ve done this with a client before, what we have is she blogs about financial stuff for business owners. Very niche. And this particular blog post was tips and tricks for Etsy shop owners.

And people were like hand makers, that kind of stuff. So, she has this blog post, and we run ads to it for about 10, 20 bucks a day, we get tons of visitors. And then people are on that page. And then they click on the ads that are on that page, she makes money.

So, it’s like a whole little circle. And then what she’ll do is will switch up the blog post every month or so. So, she picks a blog post that’s already doing pretty well. And she knows like, hey, people are interested in this.

There’s a lot of views on this already. And I think that’s important to know what’s working. Again, Facebook and Instagram ads are the icing on the cake, it’s just going to amplify what’s already happening.

So, see if it’s working. If you have a blog post that’s doing really well, even doing $5-$10 a day, and testing it out could be super beneficial.

Jillian Leslie 13:55
But I would argue that because we have a site called Catch My Party, we monetize via ads that we end up upside down. Meaning we are making $1 for every 1,000 people who come to that blog post.

You can’t in our in our math make that make sense and this is what you were alluding to. Unless there was something else, we were looking to do on that page.

For example, get an email signup, sell a product, do something but just to run ads to make money with ads. You don’t make enough with your ad network for that to make sense.

Because you’re going to pay $1 a click, let’s say from a Facebook ad to my website where I’m making $1 for every 1,000 clicks.

Shelby Fowler 14:59
Yes. So, that particular client, she sells spreadsheets, she sells courses. So ultimately, she retargets them later. So, for most of you, and again, what we were kind of bringing up is having them join an email list or something, it might be a lot more beneficial for you.

Because then you can be emailing them every time you have a new blog article up. Hey, did you catch this week’s article, this week’s blog post?

Best Opt-in And Freebie Ideas

So, if you have the ability to add that onto a page, or they can get some sort of freebie, you can have a checklist or a little guide.

I tell this to people a lot when they are creating freebies, I want you to think about who your ideal customer client is, or fan, if you call them fans, because busy people don’t read eBooks.

So, if you are targeting busy people don’t make like 200-page eBook, we’re not going to read it. Give it to us straight. And I think a lot of people are busy.

And we’re targeting people that are busy moms, busy business owners, people who have a lot going on in their lives right now. Everyone has a lot going on in their lives. So, checklists guide. Things that are going to give them quick wins are always good.

And especially if you have content already on your blog, just repurpose it, you don’t have to create anything fancy, just repurpose something that you already have into some sort of downloads.

Jillian Leslie 16:40
So, let’s walk through a couple scenarios. And you can tell me how you would come up with an ad strategy for let’s say, I sell a course on organization.

Shelby Fowler 16:56
Okay.

Jillian Leslie 16:57
I sell it to moms with small children. And my house is a mess. And let’s say it is a six-week course. And I sell it for $200.

I come to you, I’ve got a blog, I’ve got an email list, let’s say of 2,000 people, and I want to sell my $200 course and I say, “Alright, Shelby, tell me what to do.”

How to Set Up an Instagram Ad to Sell a Product

Shelby Fowler 17:27
Okay, okay.

Jillian Leslie 17:28
And my young moms are on Instagram predominantly.

Shelby Fowler 17:33
Okay. So, what I would suggest here is that I would get them into a Facebook group, because young moms like community, and being a young mom can be very lonely. So, Facebook communities, mom Facebook communities, groups are doing really great.

They are growing. Mom groups are some of the most engaging groups because they have questions. They’re like, there’s paint all over the house things, there’s mishaps everyday, you have something to talk about all the time.

I have two little ones, I get it, I’m in mom groups. So, what I would do is I would get them into a Facebook group where you’re a creative community, but you’re also pitching your course, every single week.

And the reason why I would do it that way and not get them on a webinar or something like that is because your webinar cost per registration is going to be about $6 to $10 per registration.

So, you’re going to end up not being profitable unless your courses over really $700 bucks. If your course is over $700, you could be profitable. Anything under that you’re going to most likely lose money.

Unless you had some massive, warm audience like you were Oprah Winfrey or something. Or if you had a 20,000-email list, and these people were super hyper engaged, I would say you know what, try a webinar. Let’s do it that way.

Most of us are not there. So, get them into a Facebook group.

Jillian Leslie 19:17
So okay, how do I get people into my Facebook group?

Shelby Fowler 19:23
Yep. So, you’ll want to create a landing page, where you have a picture of yourself maybe a video at the top and you’re saying, hey, this group I created for moms and we’re learning how to get our stuff in order.

How to organize all the things, all the toys, all the boo bops plus you’re getting support. We have live calls every week where you can ask organization questions. I have tips and tricks in there.

And we have, ‘Meet Your Mom Wednesdays’, where we have live calls and we get to all kind of chat and tell funny stories about motherhood. So, you want to click the link to join below. And what you want them to do is put in their name and email and click “join.”

And the reason why you want to do that is because then you get their email address. By the way, not only you’re going to join the community, when you click the link below.

I’m going to actually email you a welcome email to show you just how to plug into the group because sometimes we join these groups, and they’re overwhelming. And we don’t know all the things yet.

So, once you hit that button, I’m going to email you with like the next steps going forward to get the most out of this community. So, then you’ll have an email that goes out to them immediately, it says, Welcome to the Facebook group, blah, blah, blah.

Make sure that you tune in, I go live on Tuesdays, whatever, okay. You’re giving them what they’re getting from the group. And then you’ll get them joining your Facebook group. Then you can approve them.

Then you’ll want to have a marketing strategy inside of the Facebook group. So, a post every single day, you’re going to want to welcome new members. I use a very similar strategy for my own business.

And I message everybody who joins and I welcome them. Because there’s a lot. I have over 2,100 members right now. It’s a lot, but you can use a program called Group Leads, it’s really great.

And you can automatically approve members, it’ll send them a message automatically, it’ll tag them in a welcome post, just to set you apart from all the other groups. They’re getting that extra, like love from you. That’s what I would do.

And then I would go live, I would talk about it, I would have one of your membership questions, joining the Facebook group. I help busy moms get their house in order and get it organized.

Whatever your kind of statement is here. How do you help these people? And do you want me to message you with how I might be able to help you?

You want to tell them how you can help them and say, “Would you like me to message you for more information?” And they’re going to say yes or no.

What I have found is that most people are going to say yes. And then you message them. And you tell them about your course. Because they’ve given you permission.

Jillian Leslie 22:23
And so, you’re messaging them on Facebook.

Shelby Fowler 22:25
Yeah.

Jillian Leslie 22:26
Okay. You’re not like emailing them. I mean, you’re doing a welcome email. But otherwise, you’re really interacting with them on the platform.

Shelby Fowler 22:33
Correct.

Jillian Leslie 22:34
Now, are you running ads to the landing page?

Shelby Fowler 22:40
Correct. That is where you’re running ads to because you’re not allowed right now to run ads to a Facebook group directly. Which is so funny to me, I say this all the time. But I’m like, Facebook, you don’t want me to give you money to promote your own platform?

Why? That doesn’t make sense. But nonetheless, if you send them to a landing page anyways, you can pixel them. And there’s all that good stuff, too. So, send them to your landing page?

Jillian Leslie 23:09
And how much should I then plan on spending per new Facebook group member?

Shelby Fowler 23:19
It’s going to depend on your market here. I would start with $10 a day, and watch it over a couple of days. And then you want to maybe increase it. So, $10, $20 a day, watch it grow.

We’re doing this with several clients the same strategy to get their groups going. Because they do a lot of their sales out of a Facebook community. And we’re spending like $30 a day.

So, it’s just going to depend on your niche, your market, all of that. But definitely, I wouldn’t go less than 10 bucks a day.

Jillian Leslie 23:56
Got it. About how many new members are you seeing per day?

Shelby Fowler 24:04
I would expect you to spend about less than $5 a day per person ideally. So, if you’re spending like $10 a person, then you need to figure out your targeting, you may need to tweak your ad copy or your ad graphic a little bit.

For those of you with smaller ad budgets, run video ads, because video ads are the biggest bang for your buck. And if you do that, you’re going to get better costs and you’re going to get more people joining.

Shelby Fowler

So, usually for lead magnets, we like to say around $3. Right now, ad costs are really good at the time of this recording. Because we’re after holiday season. Holiday season ad costs go up.

So, if you’re listening to this, and it’s like, October, November, December, you’re going to expect to pay a little bit more because you’re competing against the big guys. These huge retailers that are running ads and spending millions.

So, just to give you kind of a little bit, you want to be under $5, for sure.

Jillian Leslie 25:12
Per acquisition?

Shelby Fowler 25:14
Correct.

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What Kind of Video Ads Should You Be Creating?

Jillian Leslie 26:04
When you say video ads, do you mean video ads on Facebook? Do you mean video ads on Instagram? Is there a difference? Like what’s working on one platform versus the other?

Shelby Fowler 26:15
Yes. Great question. I would run timeline ads. So, you’re going to film, horizontally on your iPhone or smartphone, or you could do it on your computer.

It doesn’t have to be fancy; you don’t need to go buy a fancy camera, or if you have one, cool. But you don’t have to go use that.

And then you’re going to keep it two minutes or less, that way it will also be on Instagram. And then you can run this ad, you can actually run it as automatic placement.

When you set up your ad, you can run it as automatic placement, which means that Facebook’s going to decide where it’s going to perform best. And then where it performs best, it will send more of it there.

So, you’re just giving Facebook a little bit more power. But that’s great, Facebook likes when you do that. And the thing about it is that Facebook/Instagram. They make money from advertisers. So, don’t forget that they do want your ads to do well.

Because the more success you see the more money you’re going to spend on their platforms. And the more money they’re going to make.

So, I say run automatic placements. And that’s what it’s automatically set as, unless you go in there and tweak it.

Okay, so now, if you were to run a story ad, those do really well, too. So, we’ve been testing this with clients a lot in the last couple of months.

And that is story specific placements, which means we film vertically, and I actually like to film it directly in Instagram stories. And instead of posting it, I actually save it. And then I email it to myself. And then I upload it into ads manager and run as an ad.

So, what I do is I will go into Instagram, I will film a story. And I’ll just be like, Hey, guys, let’s say it was for this particular client who has this Facebook group. Hey, guys, I have an amazing community for moms just like you. You know what life’s a mess.

And especially now. These kids, they’re just always there. And so, I have this community you don’t want to miss out. It is exclusive, you’re going to get exclusive tips and tricks on organization. And I share recipes in there.

And below, we have mom meetups, virtual mom meetups, it’s so much fun, swipe up to join right now it’s completely free. And I don’t want you to miss out because you don’t have to do this mom thing alone.

They’re going to see that and they’re going to go, I want to join. So, in a swipe up, they go to your landing page. And then they would join that way.

Those ads, how you run them, you’re going to go into ads manager. And then instead of having automatic placement, you’ll click, ”manual placement, which is right under it.

And then you just unclick everything but the stories so you want it to only go on Instagram stories and Facebook stories because you’re going to tell them at the end of the video to ‘swipe up’, because it’ll give you that, ‘swipe up’ feature. So, you get them swipe up.

Jillian Leslie 29:29
You get swipe up if you pay?

Shelby Fowler 29:31
Yep.

Jillian Leslie 29:32
Got it.

Shelby Fowler 29:33
Exactly.

It feels like marketing today is very personal. It’s more personal than polished.

Jillian Leslie

Shelby Fowler 29:44
Yeah.

Jillian Leslie 29:45
Would you agree with that?

Shelby Fowler 29:47
I would agree. I think we’re over all the–

Jillian Leslie 29:52
–the filters.

Shelby Fowler 29:53
Yeah, exactly. We want raw, we want real, we’re just over all of the polish, all of the filters. We want real people real stuff.

Setting Up an Ad for an E-Commerce Brand

Jillian Leslie 30:05
I think that makes a lot of sense. Okay, let’s say now, I am an e-commerce brand. I’ve got a small Shopify, I sell jewelry. How would you set up ads for me using Facebook ads and Instagram?

Shelby Fowler 30:26
Yeah, I would absolutely use your list of people who have already purchased. So, I would go ahead and pull the CSV file. So, go into your Shopify, and look at your list of people who bought and then download it, pull it as a CSV file.

And then you’re going to upload it into ads manager. So, when you go into ads manager, you’re going to click on ‘audiences’, you’re going to go click on ‘create custom audience’, and then you’re going to upload your email list right there.

And then you’re going to name it like, jewelry buyers from this time to this time. So, you kind of have an idea when you see it in there you know what it is. I see a lot of times you don’t name it correctly. And then you’re in there, you’re like, what was this I forgot.

So, just make sure you name it something you’re going to remember. Then what you’re going to do is create a look alike audience. So, again, you just click on that audience click, “look alike.” And then you can pick the country and the age range and all that.

So, you could pick the country, create look alike audience, and then I would run ads to that look alike audience. If you know that your lifetime value of a customer is a lot higher than their initial purchase.

Let’s say that they bought something that’s $50. And let’s say your ad average order value is about $50. But your lifetime value of a customer is much higher, then you can you can retarget the people who’ve already bought from you.

Because you know that they’re going to likely rebuy. Now they want earrings, now they want a bracelet now they, oh, these are cute rings. So, run ads targeting the people who have already bought.

And you’re going to change your ad copy, the text portion of your ad to be something like, “Hey, I haven’t seen you in a while.” Something like that, where it’s acknowledging that they’ve already been a customer.

So, when they see it, they’re like, Whoa, creepy, how do we know?

Jillian Leslie 32:33
Creepy but cool.

Shelby Fowler 32:37
And they’re going to click on your ad. And then you’re going to run ads to that look alike audience of people who look like your buyers, and that’s going to look a little bit different, because they haven’t already bought from you.

So, your ad copy is going to say something a little bit different. And again, you can use product shots do really well, video ads do really well. If you have like a video of someone putting jewelry on and like straightening it up or something like that, try it out.

Test Your Ads to See What Performs Best

And again, testing is your friend. So, test videos, test photos, product shots, and see what performs best. Per customer acquisition, you want to pay 30% of your average order value.

So, if your average order value is $50, then you want to spend 30% of that per customer acquisition. Does that make sense?

Jillian Leslie 33:32
Let’s say, I want to break this down. So, first of all, what I hear you saying, and I believe this is if you’ve already acquired a customer, that customer is super valuable to you.

Shelby Fowler 33:45
One hundred percent.

Jillian Leslie 33:45
Because they’ve gone through the buying process. And if they like your product, they are more apt to buy more. So, don’t think it’s all about getting new people into your funnel.

It’s loving on the people who have already gone through that and letting them know how much you appreciate them. And that you want to build the relationship not necessarily with the new customer, but with the existing customer.

How to Know How Much to Spend on Ads? What is Your Average Order Value?

So, I think that is a big, big point. Secondly, there’s this concept of the flywheel. And we all hope to get the flywheel going, think of like your spin class. And usually, you want it if for example, you’re making money with ads, then your budget should be infinite.

You should just keep fueling that flywheel if it’s spinning off money for you. The way to know if that’s working is you have to think about what is a customer worth to me?

Now the one thing you said was that you have to think about, so I sell jewelry, let’s say, and my average purchase is $100. But I also have to take out certain expenses, like I’m buying gemstones, and I’m doing all this.

So, if you buy something for $100, from me, I’m going to make $50.

Shelby Fowler 35:16
Mm hmm.

Jillian Leslie 35:16
And so therefore, are you saying that I can spend a third of the $100, or a third of the $50.

Shelby Fowler 35:27
I’m saying, if your average order value is like $50, then you can spend $15 per customer acquisition. And if your lifetime value of a customer is really high, you have people constantly buying your stuff over and over and over.

Then you may be able to spend a little bit more comfortably because you know, you may lose a little bit of money up front, but you actually make it long term on the back end. Does that make sense?

Jillian Leslie 35:55
Yes. So, you’re saying revenue, not profit. You can spend a third of what you make in revenue, versus a third of what you’re making in profit. Got it.

And the difference with revenue and profit is profit, you’re taking out your expenses, but you’re saying a third of revenue. And so that’s the thing. So, let’s say then, my customer is $50, spends $50 with me.

Let’s say the lifetime of a customer is $100, they’re going to spend $100, I can spend up to $33, to acquire a new sale or a new customer.

Shelby Fowler 36:33
So, $100, you would want to spend that first initial average order value. So, if they spent $50. with you, and you take 30% of that, that’s $15. So, you really want to keep your cost per customer acquisition, with ads about $15.

Jillian Leslie 36:52
Okay, even if the lifetime value of this customer is higher.

Shelby Fowler 36:57
Yes. But let’s say though, that maybe it’s even more high, like, let’s say, they’re going to end up spending several hundred dollars with you, you play it by ear. Know your numbers. This is why it’s so important to know your numbers know, your overhead.

What are you going to walk away with being profitable at the end of the day? And then, you might be willing to spend a little bit more. You might be willing to spend up to 50%, of that original average order value.

When they first order from you. What is the average cost, like how much they spend with you?

And so, you might be willing to even break even in some cases, if, again, they’re spending enough money with you because they reorder and they reorder, reorder.

Jillian Leslie 37:46
Absolutely. Okay, first, I just have to ask you, whenever you’re doing video, you always need to add captions. Am I right because people do not listen to stories? They read stories; they interact with stories that way.

Shelby Fowler 38:01
Yes, I will say with Instagram story and Facebook stories, specific ads, that’s not necessarily the case. Because they’re watching stories, and people are talking all the time. When you’re on a on the timeline.

So, an Instagram timeline, or your Facebook feed or timeline, you definitely want to have captions. It’s like 80%, or more people don’t even watch your video with the sound on.

I like to use a program called ClipScribe. And you can upload your video into there and it creates this cool little video with this like bar up top. Where you could put a headline and a subheading, and then your captions auto generate at the bottom.

It’s not very expensive to buy like a year pass to it. Considering how much time it’s going to save you because you don’t have to, manually type out, captions and stuff. And it automatically designs it and you can just mess around with the fonts and stuff.

It’s really easy to use. That’s what we like to use. We actually use it for high six and seven figure entrepreneurs. That’s the exact program we use.

But yeah, definitely use captions. Especially for feed and timelines, because most people aren’t going to listen to you.

Jillian Leslie 39:18
But you can though. Just you talking in a story. You don’t necessarily need it for stories?

Shelby Fowler 39:26
Correct.

How Much Do I Have to Spend to Test?

Jillian Leslie 39:26
Okay, here are two more questions. One, how much should I be willing to spend to learn? Because I know in the beginning, especially you’re trying all these different things. You’re testing all these different things.

And you have to assume that in the beginning, there’s investment that has to go into it so that you know what’s working. So, what do you tell clients like, be prepared, this is what the investment is going to be.

You’re not necessarily going to go spend your first $100 and then boom, there’s $50. Or there’s $150. What do you say to your clients?

Shelby Fowler 40:10
Typically, we don’t take on clients that we know aren’t going to be profitable. So, we run the numbers with them. And we typically work with clients who already have a very strong organic marketing strategy.

So, their organic marketing is on point, they are posting regularly, they have communities built, they have audiences built, they have fans around their business, around their brands.

That’s typically who we work with, and we run the numbers first, because I don’t like to take clients on that we’re going to lose money, that’s not fun for anybody. You’re not going to like me; it’s not going to be a good exchange of energy.

Wait until you have a solid offer before you run ads to it.

Shelby Fowler

Okay, so what I mean by that is, let’s say, going back to the blog article, example, if you have a blog article that’s already doing really well, if you put a little bit of money behind it.

And you have a forum there, where people can sign up for your lead magnet right there. You’re probably going to do pretty good, because it’s already doing well. And that’s if you have that lead magnet registration on that page.

Or let’s say you have a lead magnet, and you have promoted it organically on social media, and people are giving great feedback on it. People are really interested in it. And so, if you put ads behind that, it’s probably going to turn out pretty good.

And you’re going to spend about $3 a lead on that. If you have a webinar that’s already doing really well, or a masterclass presentation, something of that nature.

Build Off of What’s Already Doing Well

It’s already doing really well, you’ve run it organically, if you put ads behind it, again, it’s just the icing on the cake, ads are going to amplify what you’re already doing. Ads do not fix a broken sales problem.

Ads do not fix a business that doesn’t work or a blog, that sucks. So, I always recommend that you have that foundation first. And that way, when you do run ads, you have more confidence. You have more confidence going into it.

And I think a lot of times, especially if you’re wanting to do your own ads, the first time you hire someone to do your own ads, you’re nervous a little bit, it’s a little overwhelming. And investing money hoping for return can be kind of scary, right?

So, if you already have something that works and it’s flowing, people are giving you good feedback on it, then your chances of success are way better. And you can go into ads with a lot more confidence.

So, I don’t know if that really answered your question. But if you’re going to test, test audiences first. Test your audiences first.

Jillian Leslie 43:28
Okay, first, what I hear you saying and I could not agree more with this is you need to show that it’s already working. So, it’s not just a theory, or it’s not one of these, it should work. You need to know it’s already working before you ever put money behind it.

And then you get to tweak it and still, you’re going to learn and you might do something and it doesn’t quite work. But if you already know what you’re saying is the fundamentals are there.

And then it’s like putting a little bit of rocket fuel behind it. Or gasoline all of a sudden, you can start to see that flywheel spinning quicker but you have to get the flywheel going before you add the money.

Shelby Fowler 44:14
Yep, exactly.

Test Your Audiences First When Setting Up Ads

Jillian Leslie 44:16
Okay, and then what do you mean by the first thing you test is audiences?

Shelby Fowler 44:21
So, when you run ads, the first one to two weeks you want to test audiences. The same exact ad to like three to four different audiences. So, try maybe it’s you’re going to retarget website visitors.

People who have already visited your website. That’s one audience, and then another audience could be a couple of cold audiences. So, let’s say that you are a jewelry business. And your ideal customer is somebody who shops at Target and Whole Foods.

Then you can run an ad to women in a specific age range, who shop at Target and Whole Foods and then see how that does. And you’re going to create three to four different audiences. And then you’re going to watch which ones do the best.

Again, same exact ad, same copy, same graphics, or video. And the only difference is audiences. That way, you know, which one of these audiences is liking your offer the most.

That way you don’t waste money long term on these audiences that aren’t even interested in what you have to offer. So, a lot of people will just kind of turn ads on and cross their fingers. But that first month of running ads is going to be a lot of testing.

So, you want to definitely test your audiences. Even though you may think these people are my people, they might not actually think that they’re your people. So, the only way to know that is to run ads, and see if they’re responding, are they clicking?

Are they buying? Are they registering? Are they signing up to join your Facebook group? What are they doing? Or what are they not doing, more importantly?

So, you can turn those ads off after a couple of days. After five, six days, you’re not seeing any good return on some of those audiences turn the ads off.

Should You Boost a Post on Facebook?

Jillian Leslie 46:26
Got it. Do you ever suggest somebody boost a post in Facebook? You put a post on and it says boosted. What is your thought about that?

Shelby Fowler 46:37
No, we don’t boost posts. Boosting posts is a waste of money. And the reason why it’s like a fake ad, and a lot of people are like, “Oh, I’ve run ads before.” You’ve just boosted posts most of the time.

So, what you want to do is you actually want to create your ad inside of Facebook Business Manager, and then you’ll click on ‘ads manager’ right inside of there. And that’ll take you to ads manager, which I want to emphasize this is different than the ad center.

When you’re on Facebook, on your Facebook business page, you can click on ‘ad center’, and it will show you all the posts you boosted. Again, that’s not real ads, those aren’t real ads.

You have very little control over who sees those, what happens with them, it’s not good, you’re not going to get a good ROI.

Most of you, it’s like you might as well drive on the freeway with a bunch of money in your hand and roll down the window and throw it out. That’s about how great it is for you. It’s not so don’t do it.

Go inside of ads manager create your ads there. Again, ads manager ad center, very different things.

Can You Run Ads on Facebook and Instagram Myself?

Jillian Leslie 47:54
Okay. And my final question, could I do this myself? Or do I need to hire somebody like you? How complicated is this really?

Shelby Fowler 48:09
So, great question. Because I think a lot of people want to know how to do it. And I think it’s a good idea to know the basics before you hire somebody so, that you know if they’re doing it correctly or not.

If you hire somebody to do it for you, somebody good is going to cost you a couple thousand dollars, in addition to your ad budget.

So, what I like to tell people is if you’re ready for that investment, and you know that you’re going to get an ROI, then hire somebody to do it for you. Because that frees up your time to be able to go focus on areas where you’re better at.

Then you can scale your business in other ways and let the pro, like myself and my team or anybody else that is a professional at this, do their thing. They can run your ads, they’ll do your ad creative, they’ll manage it, they’ll do all of that.

And they’ll watch it like a hawk every day all day to make sure that you’re getting the best results possible. Now, if you’re not ready to make that investment of let’s say, several thousand dollars a month. Because that’s ultimately what it’s going to cost you.

You’re going to have to spend a couple thousand in ads, a couple thousand in hiring them for the month. So, you’re walking away, four or five grand in. So, if that’s not you yet, then learn how to do it yourself.

Now, there are lots of courses out there. There’s YouTube videos, all of that. But here’s what I want to tell you about that. YouTube videos, a lot of them are outdated or they’re created by people who don’t really know what they’re doing.

And it’s hard to find the right thing when you’re not even sure what you’re looking for either. Especially when you’re new. You’re like I don’t know what I don’t know. So, it’s hard to go search for something. And you’re like, I’m not sure if this is right.

And there’s so much different information out there and different strategies that people are going to share. And a lot of them are not going to be for you.

But they’re not positioned as if this strategy isn’t good for these types of people, or it’s only good for these types of people.

They just make it broad, because they want as many viewers as possible. So, I want you to be careful with what you consume on YouTube.

The other thing is courses, there’s lots of courses out there, and you can find some that are really inexpensive, and some that are, on the higher ticket price offer. I do have a program that teaches Facebook ads.

And it’s not a course, because I don’t believe in courses when you’re learning something like this, because I think you need that support. I think you need somebody holding your hand walking you through the process, because you’re going to get overwhelmed.

Otherwise, you’re going to need that support. You can watch all the videos, but who’s going to show you how to do it. And when something happens when your pixel isn’t firing right away, and you have questions?

Who are you going to turn to? There’s no support, there’s no person, human there to help you to hold your hand. And so, I have a program for that called Fempire Ads Academy.

And so, it’s a 12-month program, we teach you how to run ads. And we show you how to do it. We have weekly calls that you can hop on and get help with ads manager.

There are people who work on my team in my ad agency, and you get templates and you get an ads coach inside. Somebody who checks in with you weekly, and you have a one-on-one call with them every month plus all my ads training.

So, if you’re wanting to learn how to do it. And of course, you just want to pick up a short, sweet core straight to the point. There’s lots of them out there.

But if you want a little bit more support and you want someone to hold your hand through the process and tell you like hey, this looks good. These ads aren’t performing well.

Let’s tweak and adjust them. You want that done with you, kind of vibe, then definitely look into Fempire Ads Academy.

How

Jillian Leslie 55:57
How quickly is it evolving and changing? So, like let’s say you teach something now, in six months, is it all going to be different?

Shelby Fowler 56:07
Yeah.

How Quickly Are Facebook and Instagram Ads Changing?

Jillian Leslie 56:08
Is it similar? How quickly is Facebook and Instagram? How quickly are they evolving their platform and their ad offerings?

Shelby Fowler 56:18
That’s a great question. It’s evolving all the time and like sometimes weekly. And that’s why this is all we do is Facebook and Instagram ads, because it’s a lot to keep up with.

And especially right now with like the iOS update. So, iPhone coming out with its new update that’s affecting audiences and retargeting and stuff with ads.

So, we are navigating with our clients and with our members inside of our program, how to make sure that you’re safe. And verifying your domain inside of ads manager is one big thing that everybody needs to do right now.

I think it’s very important, because you never know, when all of a sudden iPhone comes up with an update, and you now can’t track people that click on your website. We never when that stuff’s going to happen. It just happens.

And so, we have to always keep our ear to the ground, if you will, like knowing what’s going to happen. I would say that most training is probably going to be pretty spot on if it’s, created within the last couple of months.

But something creative last year isn’t going to be right anymore.

Jillian Leslie 57:33
It’s so interesting, because that’s what I would say is I feel like it’s continuing to evolve and that they are continuing to push out new products, or certain things that worked before don’t necessarily work now.

And that in a weird way, you kind of have to stay on top of it, in addition to running your business. And that is where it gets tricky. It’s like you need to have a Master’s Degree in ads, in addition to all the other hats that you wear.

Shelby Fowler 58:04
Right. Exactly. As a business owner or a blogger, you’re wearing a lot of hats. You’re doing a lot of things. So, it definitely is. If you don’t have like a sidekick who’s telling you what’s new, what you need to do, and keeping you updated.

Or if you don’t have somebody that you’ve hired to kind of just take it over for you. It’s definitely overwhelming to go at it solo that can be super overwhelming. And it gets complicated.

Jillian Leslie 58:34
Especially if you’re running so many different campaigns.

Shelby Fowler 58:38
Yes. For sure.

Jillian Leslie 58:40
Well, Shelby, this has been so enlightening. And I feel like you are right there on the cutting edge of what is working. And I love that you’ve been able to share all of this.

And I just want to reiterate what you said. Right now, people want people to show up as real people.

Shelby Fowler 59:01
Yes.

Jillian Leslie 59:01
You don’t have to be so worried that your video is so highly produced, show up authentically. And people respond.

Shelby Fowler 59:09
Yeah. Absolutely.

Jillian Leslie 59:12
How can people learn more about you, reach out to you? What is the best way?

Shelby Fowler 59:17
You can go to my website, which is fempiremedia.com. That’s ‘F’ as in Frank, e-m-p-i-r-e media, m-e-d-i-a.com. That’s my website. You can find all things about what I do. You can learn about Fempire Ads Academy there. And you can find me on Facebook and Instagram.

Jillian Leslie 59:41
Awesome. Well, Shelby, thank you so much for being on the show.

Shelby Fowler 59:45
You’re very welcome. Thank you for having me.

Jillian Leslie 59:49
Hope you guys liked this episode. For me I had two major takeaways. One is look for what’s already working in your business. And that’s what you want to lean into. I preach this all the time.

And two be willing to show up and show up a little raw because people respond to that.

And I want to remind you to join my Facebook group. It’s called The Become A Blogger Genius Facebook group. You might be on Facebook; I don’t know in 10 minutes.

So, while you’re there, just search for it and join it and come say hello, and let me know that you’re listening to the podcast. And I will see you here again next week.

Other Blogger Genius Podcast episodes on email marketing to check out:

• #126: How To Show Up Authentically And Sell To Your List
• #088: Advanced Email Marketing Strategies You Need to Know
• #116: How to Get Started Selling Successful Products Online
• #070: How to Crush Email Marketing and Grow Sales with Matt Molen

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